1917 DWM Arty question
 

I just acquired a 1917 DWM arty all numbers match except magazine. I was looking at it today and I do have one question.

The frame is serial numbered 7227 b and the barrel is serial numbered 7227 but with no suffix,

Is this something to be alarmed over?

It warrants some concern.

Were there any examples where the barrel wasnt suffixed? The condition of the barell finsish to the gun is consistent. Numbers are of the same font and size.

photos would help.

Ill get photos on later. Just wanted to know if anyone has run across this before.

The barrel on my 1917 DWM LP08 (within the "k" block) has the suffix letter stamped on the barrel.

Marc

My 1917 artillery has a suffix on both barrel and frame. Bill

Here are a few pics I love the gun and it looks right to me I just dont get why it doesnt have a suffix on the barrel. More pics to follow

More PIcs

Even More all small parts are numbered 27 Hold open, Firing pin even both of the grips are numbere 27 the gun looks legit to me But why no suffix

More pics still

Run the rear sight up as high as you can and, with a strong light, examine the numbers on top of the barrel below the sight mount. Those numbers should include at least two numerals from your serial number. If they are there you are probably alright.

Odd, but I'm not seeing a fake. An anomaly IMHO.
dju

Inside the sight it has a 652 on the site frame it says 65

The serial number on the bottom of the barrel has no evidence of being re struck and if someone would go through the trouble to re strike the serial number to the proper size and font why wouldnt they put the suffix on?

It would seem like whomever stamped the barrel serial number did not leave enough space for the letter suffix to be added, given that the bore gauge had to be in there as well, so it was omited.

It looks like one of those legitimate anomalies to me.

Like I already stated, I'm not seeing a problem.
But just for the sake of whipping up some discussion, am I seeing scratches around the base of the barrel just out from the base ring that might show clamp or fixture wear? That could suggest re-barreling somewhere along the way. Also without all the white lacquer stick filler, are there halo's around the barrel numbers similar to that on the frame? Can you clean off all the white stuff and post some really good photos of those barrel, and maybe frame, numbers? Also, do the index marks align?
Thanks for indulging me.
dju

Perhaps because they didn't have the proper 'fractur' font lower case letter stamps... :rolleyes:

Harbor Freight/Brownells can't stock everything...'Someone' might have thought it would be better to leave it off rather than strike an obviously false font and have it proved a fake... ;)

...Pure conjecture on my part... :D

David the witness mark under magnification looks good, there are however scratches on the throat of the barrell , There are also definately halso around the numbers on the barrell.

652 is on the sight base. You need to be looking forward of there into the void at the top of the barrel.

652 is on the sight base. You need to be looking forward of there into the void at the top of the barrel.

You mean up towards the pin on the tangent sight?

No, down inside the sight base frame at the top of the barrel.

George the only number I see are 652 inside the sight frame and a 65 on the corner of the site frame maybbe i am looking on the wrong spot but this is what I see

Any other input from anyone?

So should this weapon be considered a shooter or not?

W:
We'll need to wait a verdict from the professors, however IMHO there are some situations that can not be explained with 100% certainty. Possibly if one of our scholars had it in front of them with a good light they could give a definitive answer, but I doubt it.
To me it seems like sometimes there is a grey area in between collector Lugers and simple shooters. This game is not always so black and white. At least not to us newer collectors.
If that were my gun I would consider it a collector item and cherish it as such. If you go to sell it I'd tell prospective buyers about the uncertainty over the missing suffix, discount the price a bit and move on. But to define that gun as a shooter seems to not due it justice.
Hell, I've got more new parts than that gun does and I'm only half its age...
dju

I agree with David. Even Germans made mistakes. Not sure why we think they were perfect in gun manufacture. At least we seem to expect them to be. If I owned it it would be a collectible and treated as such. Bill

David just to whip up some discussion as you said What do you make of the scratches under the barrel and what are your opinions of the witness mark. I am just trying to get as many opinions on these areas to help educate myself.

W

I'm not seeing any issues with the witness mark.
The scratches on the right side of the barrel that run parallel to the bore all seem like random scratches.
The circular rings around the base of the barrel could suggest slipage in a barrel vice. It's something I'd about have to see in the flesh, and even then it may remain uncertain. It looks to me like if it was rebarreled, it was done a very long time ago, possibly even war-time. Some photos of the left side show the barrel to be in better blue than the rest, while the close-up photos of the right side seem to show even finish throughout.
Bottom line is I dunno.
It's not a fake created for deception and profit, but what has happened along the way is uncertain.
dju

Yet the back sight base serials don't correspond, as per George Anderson's message.

I still see cause for concern.

I don't find the number on the sight base to be a problem. What I was after is the series of two or three numbers on top of the barrel normally seen inside the void in the sight base. These were numbers, one or two of which should correspond with the barrel serial number. It is believed that these were placed on the barrel prior to fitting it to the receiver. Only after this fitting was complete and the barrel installed would the blued and finished barrel be numbered on the bottum. These "working numbers" are sometimes very difficult to see.

Generally, I have no problem with the artillery in question.

Wayne:
The professor has spoken.
dju

Whew!!!! Looks like I just have an enigma but a proper period enigma.

Thanks Everyone

Wayne et al, THe numbered stamped by Erfurt when they made these barrels (only fully readable when the rear sight is removed) has NO relationship to the later applied serial numbers. The rear sight should have the last two digit of the serial on the base, appeture (rear) and elevator piece. TH

Which is the case, there is #27 stamped on all of these parts. I do not understand, can someone explain what is this enigma all about - except missing suffix?


http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1355622966
http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1355623313
http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1355623313
http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1355623313
http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...7&d=1355623313

Great Pics, Ansel Adams would be proud!

May I suggest that you look at this thread on Jan Still's forum. http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...-numbers-codes

I cant seem to get the link to work.

Neither can I but then I am a "child in the wilderness" when it comes to computers. Try signing on to luger.gunboards.com then doing an advanced search by member using paolo as the member name. Search posts started by user then go to topic "Artillery Lugers" under 1900-1918 Imperial Lugers.