whats wrong with these magazines?
 

ok, lets play, what in the world is wrong with these mags?

Those that instantly know, wait a day :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Luger-PAIR-o...item3a7c6c04a7

Nice :)

(I'll remain quiet).

East German Haenel-Schmeisser mags with bogus Nazi bottums. I watch Revshops Ebay offers all the time and never see any bids on his stuff, The forums must be doing some good.

Spoil sport... :grr:

His asking prices also seem on the "optimistic" side.
Bob

Of course his attempt at faking one of the WaffenAmt stamps must have gone wrong, because it's been further ground off the base...

2/1001 being a part number used post war during the DDR era.

I bought one of these from Sarco when they still had them. Nice running magazine at only $85.

Too bad these have been faked up.

Marc

Sorry, I didn't see Ed's request to wait a day. This Revshop crap just really gets my dander-up so I shot off too quickly.

He tried to screw me with one of his bogus LP08s some fifteen years ago.

Well, at least you don't bear a grudge... :D

Collecting Lugers and their accoutremon involve a small circle of Friends..You tend to remember the crooks...

thank you Ed , this is what new guys like me need ...

+1

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it...

Thanks, Ed. I hadn't heard of this outfit/guy before, and appreciate the left-handed caveat!

What I noticed about the mags: Though my experience is limited, it seemed to me that the striations left by the extrusion process are deeper than original WWII versions. Is this, in fact, a clue? Also, the installation of the retaining pin in the bottom of one of them is quite sloppy--a shiny mis-strike with the press/center punch, and a deformed pin head. Would an original, unmessed-with mag look like this? The mag bottoms' texture looks like an uncirculated coin--little marks from bumping into their neighbors in a parts bag or bin, but no actual, honest wear. And both of them are in about the same condition, something I found odd. Aside from the retaining pin screw-up, they look just about identical other than the vastly different serial numbers.

Are any of my observations relevant?

D.P.

I am sure they are, however, I admit, freely that I am not a 'exact' guy, it is a reason that Dwight and i wrote the book together, I am very good at gathering info, putting it together and Dwight is excellent at research and being very exact.

Obvious things on these mags:

1. The bases are (on original east german made) are darker aluminum, and likely more of a pot metal than the WW2 bases - Note that these have WW2 bases put on them....

2. The body style is excellent and was made on original tooling, I believe although some don't that Schmeisser themselves made these - if nothing else, then it was made on their tooling or expertise.

3. ALL of these magazines have the DDR marking of 2/1001 - instead of showing FXO, they used a code of 2/1001 - as soon as you see this, KNOW that the mag is east german, and with it, it is a great mag, great shooter and almost knew compared to WW1 and WW2 mags :)

[QUOTE=Edward Tinker;224566]

1. The bases are (on original east german made) are darker aluminum, and likely more of a pot metal than the WW2 bases - Note that these have WW2 bases put on them....

I would argue that the bases are not original at all. These are newly made aluminum castings. (Observe the sharp lines and pristine condition of both. Not a SINGLE ding in either base and the stamped serial numbers have raised edges. After 70 + years for BOTH mags to be in this condition? Really?).

Click on the magnifying glass, which allows you to closely examine the magazine base photo and all will become obvious.

A long time faker like you describe must own a handy, dandy set of fake dies that he can use over time as he injects the collector market by drips and drabs with these spurious magazines.

yes, you are correct, the eagle 63 immediately stuck out at me

The serial numbers may appear stamped because they are so shiney they look like they have raised edges, but they are actually pantographed. I am not all that up on WWII magazines, but I don't believe the serial numbers were ever pantographed.

This would bear out Ed's opinion of this particular dealer. This is willful fakery and clearly an attempt to defraud the novice collector.

I'll put him on my "S" list.

David,

One thing. The Haenel Schmeisser magazines (whether FXO or 2/1001 DDR era) were not extruded. They were formed and welded steel that was subsequently precision machined into their shape.

I still think that these may have been the best and most consistent Luger magazines. It's surprising that the technique hasn't been more widely used. Of course, stamped steel is cheaper to produce.

Marc

It's a shame there isn't a way to get the word out to prospective buyers/bidders on web sites like e-bay, crooks like this guy should be put out of business.

I agree completely. I have 2 of these and they perform as well on the range as my 2 Mec-Gars. Used them with my 1938 S/42 and my 1906 AE.

Another problem with the magazine on the left is that a SE/63 stamp is not correct with a center pinned mag bottom.

Tom

The bases look like the ones that came with the 2/1001 DDR mags. Just had an addition added to them. These are very good mags but all made after WW2. Bill

Its amazing how many folks 'refuse' to be ON-LINE - they don't realize the info they loose

Wow, not actually extruded? My notion was based on having encountered the term several times in descriptions on the, um, forum. They're obviously ground and contoured up by the top. So, the striations all the way around the body are actually left by the grinding? Do you know if any forging (hot forming) was involved?

I have always admired the workmanship and construction of these mags. The lips are beefy and stiff, and I'll bet it's their ability to stay in tune that makes these mags work so well. I wonder what they'd cost today, compared to MecGar!

I was browsing on ebay just looking at what was there and saw this magazine. Looks like a nickel body but the aluminum bottom markings. They look like they are raised kinda like the ones originally in this thread. Im I correct in this thinking or is this a correct bottom and complete magazine. Price wise, Wow! $475. That cant be right I would hope.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-German-...item589a22d88b

It isn't right! Guy is dreaming pie in the sky.

hmm, dont shoot me, but im not sure. it could be original...
in the luger-book of görtz a similar one is shown.

price is funny, no question.

regards klaus

The more I looked at it, the base of it did look kinda old. The close up picture of the stampings looked kinda funny, but I saw another magazine that was a simson or Krieg. that had a very distinctive stamp that I think goes with that style gun on there as well. The close up of it kinda had that same look at the edges of the stampings. I think its just me not use to seeing the aluminum bottoms. The Krieghoff is what I think the magazine was, was even more than this one. But I guess for that gun its probably correct

Im still learning here, so work with me. But reading threads here makes me look a little deeper at items that do interest me, or just browse at.

Just saying the mag is in bad condition..the magazine pin hole on one side is ovaled/torn out. The mag seems too late for the body.

At any rate IMO it's a $50-75 magazine in it's condition. But good luck to the guy!

you can't compare different makers fonts with any degree of accuracy and even then, the letters and numbers would change over time, let alone any acceptance markings

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-GER...item53f3fd3a6c

Heres the Kriegoff I ws talking about. Looking at the Eagle/6 on it close, some of the edges are a little raised / sharp on the left side. Its probably just the fact it is aluminum. But even this one after looking is actually cheaper than the nickel boby one.

Is that the prices them kinda magazines go for. I never really looked at prices on them and I saw that last night and I just started looking closer. Pronably looking and trying to find something wrong I guess. But after seeing the Krieghoff the edges are almost the same way. So I'd guess there are correct. But wow, they aint cheap.

Even looking at the SN on the bottom of the Krieghoff looked like it was stamped over though. Is that common?

apples and oranges

Simson acceptance marking is eagle 6

Krieghoff acceptance marking is eagle 2 and the birds are totally different...

Sorry! I just noticed that that they are 2 different stamps between simson and krieghoff. But that wasnt reallt what I was looking at. Reading through the beginning of the thread and what alan commented on:

Got me looking at the initial magazine in this thread at the raised edges on that particular one. Looking at the nickel body mag and the krieghoff some of there edges are a little raised. Only around the "2" on the krieghoff. Thats really whta got me asking about the one from earlier. But if I look at all 3 of these mags in this thread, they all kinda have the edges a little bit raised right at the corner. But When you stamp the bottom, the metal that is there I guess compresses at the edge in places and gives it that slight raised or bulge look. So, the more I look at them today I'm thinking that all the aluminum bottoms probably do that, I would think.

But I'm glad you pointed the difference between the eagle/6 and eagle/2. cause thats a new one on me. Still learning and asking questions so I dont do a dumb thing later in life when buying these guns.