Not sure what I have here
 

Hi guys, This is my first post here.

My father-in-law had died a couple years ago and in his will he left me this Luger. He left it to me because I had always showed interest in it. He orginally had these crappy grips on it. They were black and white, kinda like cowboy six shooter style. They fit very poorly, but they were Luger grips. He asked me if I could make grips for him. He did not want to spend the money on repo grips. So I said I would. So I made the ones in the pictures, they are not the greatest but they fit nice and tight. I have no skill in checkering nor the proper tools.

I put the gun away after he died, And never really thought much about it. When it was orginally given to me the front sight had been knocked off.

Lately I hve been getting into guns again. I purchsed a AR15 and tricked it out, new nickel born bolt. quad rails, Geissele trigger, Eotech Holographic sight, Magpull stock, etc.......the list goes on and on.

Then I purchesed a Remington 1911 R1. I got this because I always liked the oldschool 1911, but diffently could not afford a Colt. I really like the R1 it is well built and accurate.

This new enthuasum in guns made me pull out the Luger. The first thing I did was re-silversolder the front sight post back on. Then I completely disassambled the whole gun, took off every single part, cleaned and re-oiled everything. It looks in very good shape.

I know it is not a collector because all the numbers are not there, the grips are new and now I am seeing that it is not a true artillary Luger because the barrel has been cut down. I want a shooter anyway, I can not own a gun and not shoot it. That just me......hehe

Anyway I'm thinking about putting a new barrel on it. I like the looks of the 4" barrel and Numrich has a new 9mm 4" 1 in 16 twist, blued and chambered (this is in the P-08 catogory) I'm wondering if this will work with the Luger I got, I'm not sure what I got, but I do know it is 9mm.

I have seen the sticky on changeing barrels. I know this is no easy chore, but I am a tool and die maker and a very good machinest on mills, grinders, and lathes. I know I could make all the tools for changeing the barrel (receiver wrench, barrel holder, receiver spacer) My only problem will be headspacing. I understand it but I do not have the gages or reamers for it. And part of what I was wondering do the finished Luger barrels (like the one I am thinking of buying) have the bores hardened? If you have a headspace problem do you use carbide headspace reamers? I was looking at thes and they are very expensive especally for a on time use. And I am not sure exactly wich size I would need.

Here are some pictures and thank for your help!

Mark

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7541/luger01.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7874/luger02.jpg

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5864/luger03.jpg

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4017/luger04.jpg

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6496/luger05.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4707/luger06.jpg

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5623/luger07.jpg

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3226/luger08.jpg

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/8257/luger09.jpg

Your Luger barrel is actually authentic, but as you state, someone cut down the front inch or so and made a custom front sight tower for it. If you decide to go the 4" barrel route, there are members here who would buy your old barrel for the rear sight parts. This would help defray the cost of a new barrel.

Good luck!

Thank you Rick W. for your advice. It would really suck to mess this up. I know no matter how much you plan and how careful you are, there is always the oh s**t! factor. I am still not sure what to do. You said this I tried to take a pic:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9913/luger11.jpg

Do I have the stepped chamber?

Also I just received the byf 41 Black Widow grips in hard urethane plastic, so I installed them. They fit really nice. Makes the Luger look a lot different.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/4602/luger10.jpg

The cut down barrel may have been done during the service life of the pistol. There are numerous examples of LP08s with shortened barrels. It is thought that barrels with damaged muzzles or frozen adjustable front sights were cut off and the front sight repositioned as on your gun. So it my have been an actual armorer modification. I once owned an artillery holster that was made for a 7" barrel. I didn't discover it until I tried to put my LP08 into it and the lid wouldn't close!

I vote for a trip to the range with a big box of ammo BEFORE you decide to jetison that barrel. It looks like a sweet shooter to me, and money spent on the rebarrel process will never be recovered.
That is the way DIL had it and so it should remain.
And I've just given you an excuse to buy another Luger...
My $.02.
dju

you could buy an complete upper or put one together, that way you have two shooters in different barrel lengths, simply by switching the upper.

Its the way I would go, that way, you have a project and can play with it.

I personally love a 6 inch barrel and a 5 inch would be even better, but the 4 inch is the 'classic' look to it.

You did an excellent job with the grips you made BTW, look nice.

Ed

I, personally, like the looks of your arty. The 5in bbl is one of my favorites on the P08 Luger. I purchased a rebarreled upper a while back that has a 5in bbl. and it is one of my favorites. If you decide, in the future, that you would like to sell that barrel, I would be interested.

Welcome to the forum.
you have a very nice looking and unque luger, just my opinion it's a keeper, either way congrats and enjoy

Just to add my $.02 worth (and because I love reading my own posts), if it were mine, I would keep that barrel but remove the sweated-on front sight and turn down the muzzle very slightly to mount an original Luger band + base...and of course a blade...The band/base would come from a shot-out donor...and would probably be sweated on as well, but at least would look 'original'... :)

Well.......I had to do it. I just can't leave stuff alone....heh.

Barrel came off without a hitch, no twisting, bending, collapseing, or tweeking. I know I still have a long way to go, headspacing and barrel clocking. To me this is fun (till things go wrong....haha)

Here are some pics:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/692/off01.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2421/off02u.jpg

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4151/off03.jpg

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2371/off04.jpg

I ended up buying the 9mm 4" barrel from Numrich, probely get it next week sometime.

I took out the front sight post. The barrel I am ordering does not come with one. I was wondering if someone here could measure their front sight post. I want to make sure the one I have was not altered. It dosen't look like it, but it would be nice to know the measurement. Mine measures .276 (english)

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6307/off05.jpg


This is a very good idea postino. I could just make the band myself. Either leave or add the raised area for the front post and cut the dove tails. Then silversolder it on. I think the artelliary and navy have a taller rise where the dove tail is cut (because of the longer barrel) but I'm not sure. It would be nice to have someones worn out barrel but I don't think this is possible I tried searching for artillary barrels and they seem non-existant.

Can anyone post a picture of an artillery Luger barrel band and front post. Or better yet give me some measurements.......diameter, distance from bottom of band to top of rise and top of post.

Thanks for all you comments and suggestions. Your a pretty cool bunch of guys here. Some of the forums I have been to it seems like everybody has a stick up their butt. Thanks again!

Wow...the guy in the Krieghoff forum thinks exactly the opposite... :eek: :( ;) :D

I have an arty barrel in the basement...If you can wait while I shower (working 10/6 for the last 6 weeks) I'll take some measurements...

Here's what I got -

Band dia = .596"
Band length = .680"
Base Width = .255"
Base length at top = .460"
Base setback from muzzle = .050"
Total height from bottom of band to top flat = .783"

IIRC, there are 3 Luger front sight blades, different heights...I don't know if LugerDoc has all 3, but I'm sure he must have at least one... :D

Thank you for taking the time to take the measurements postino.

You say there are 3 different Luger front sight blades. Do you know which one I need for the 4" Barrel?

If so LugerDoc do you have one for sale. A repo would be fine (fine on the wallet too.......heh)

I saw one at E-Sarcoinc.com. They call it an "early front sight" Would this work for the 4" barrel.

As always guys, thanks again for your help!

Well I got the new barrel. It seems pretty good, but I definitely have some work to do. First I gotta get it clocked right.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/3623/newbarrel01.jpg

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7177/newbarrel02.jpg

She's looking pretty good so far!!

Hi Mark, If it helps any, early (pre 1914) P08's were sighted in at 100 meters and had sight blades that measured 5.0mm high. Post 1914 they were set for 50 meters and were 5.5mm in height. Artillery blades were all 5.0mm high. Regards, Norm

Norme How high were Navy blades?

FN

Hi Fred, All Navy blades were 5.0mm high, identical to those on early P08's. Best regards, Norm

Thank you for the infro Norme. I have the 5.0mm one.

I got the barrel clocked and sight leveled, Woot Woot!!

I figured I would have to take .006 thousands off the barrel sholder to give me 1/8th away for torqueing purposes. I took off about .004 and said I better check it (can always take more, but when it's gone it's gone). Good thing, it was 1/8th turn away ...whew. Torqueed up nice.

I loaded a snap cap and it feeds and ejects great. All I got to do now is check the headspace. This won't be for a while though. The go nogo gages are like 62.00 USD at Brownells. I just can't afford this right now and if I need a reamer, oh boy another 70 bucks. I been spending a lot lately on gun stuff and the wife is starting to get a little upset........hehe. Oh well I'll just have to look at it, take the clip in and out, in and out, load and eject the snap caps. Man......I want to shoot it!!!

Here are more pics:

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6...lclocked01.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3...lclocked02.jpg

Your pistol is looking very good. I think you are doing a great job on it. By the way what is the suffix on the Arty barrel? I have one with the same suffix looking mark but am unable to decide exactly what letter it is. And I hope you will be keeping the Arty barrel.

From the photo, it looks like a "B".

Ok guys I think I got a problem. I read that the minimum headspace from a SAAMI chart for a 9mm luger is .754 and the maximum is .776

So I made a plug (gage) the is exactly .776 when I put it in the chamber toggle will close you can feel a tiny tiny bit of resistance, but it difinitely does close. If this is no good I'm screwed because there is no way I can take .050 off the barrel sholder (one complete revolution) the shoulder would be gone.

Man I am bumming out. I guess what I am asking can sombody measure their nogo gage and post the size for me....Thanks!!

Sooner the better it's like ruining my day. Thanks again!

Can you deepen the chamber throat by the amount needed?

I think my chamber is already too deep. Well at least just a couple thousands less than the maximum (.776) it's probely something like .773

By my [marginal] math skills, that gives you .019" of head space...IMHO, that's not bad for a military pistol...

By comparison, both my P38's have much more...One is right at .036"...And functions fine...

And, FWIW, you can make your own 'headspace gauges' out of plastic shim stock, cut out with a hole punch, and stacked on top of a dummy cartridge (or empty case)...

And if you want to deepen or cut a new chamber, 9mm Parabellum/Luger reamers are available for rent...(Do a Search here; there's two places that rent them quite reasonably)...

And if you reload, a too-deep chamber is still not a problem...Longer brass is available...Which can be sized to fit a too-long chamber...(A quick check shows 38 ACP/38 Super brass can be trimmed down & fire-formed to 9mm)...

Don't worry...be happy!!! :thumbup: :D

BTW, excellent looking barrel vise...How did you bore (or ream?) the taper???

Thank you postino for helping me get my balls out of my purse...haha. After reading your post, it made me say" just go shoot the dam thing". Quit freaking out and shoot it.

I went to the range and put 50 rounds through it without one single FTF or FTE. Man.........am I happy!!! My accuracy wasn't too bad, but then again I suck shooting pistols. Give me my AR15 whth my Eotech and bi-pod and I'm a lot better...heh. All in all though not too bad.

I picked up some of my brass to see if there was any bulging, splittiing, or anything wierd looking. Also I measured them for stretch. All looked good.

Fireing pin strikes:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2060/range02.jpg

Spent brass:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3517/range03.jpg

All checked and cleaned:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7835/range01.jpg

I took the barrel and put a 1 inch peice of tape on it and measured the diameter on each side of the tape. Did the trig and figured the barrel was on about a 1.14 degree angle, a 2.3 degree included angle. All I had was a 2 degree end mill in my tool box so I plunged it through the block then split the block and used my had grinder to spot it in. Oh yeah.....before I split the block I tapped and reamed two holes so I could use sholder bolts to locate and lock the block together once split.

Nice deep indents. No spring problems there. :)

Outstanding! :thumbup:

I need to order either a tapered reamer or tapered end mill for future use. I have been using my barrel vise inserts in my lathe to hold barrel blanks while I chamber them...I need something better... ;)