Luger VS. Sig
 

Went to the range today with my buddy Derek who is fresh back from Afghanistan, I took my Luger and he brought his .22, 9mm, .40 and .45 Sig's. All of em looked the same sitting on the table except my Luger. ;) I started and fired off a mag from my Luger and then Derek followed up with his .22, his .22 couldn't go 2 rounds without jamming so he retired it back to its case. Next up he tried his 9mm and again 2 rounds and it jammed, he cleared it took aim and fired and then it jammed again. I then went thru 2 more mag's with my Luger, Derek then took the Luger and ran 2 more mag's thru it. Next up he grabbed his .40 and it fired just fine and he followed it up with the .45 and it was fine too. So we had 3 out of 5 guns working, my 99 year old Luger and 2 of his brand new Sigs. It was my turn to try his .40 and he handed me a full mag and I loaded it, chambered a round and squeezed the trigger, and squeezed and squeezed I let off and asked him WTF he said keep pulling so I turned back around and squeezed what felt like a good inch worth of trigger pull before it fired. So I finished that mag and turned to him and asked what was with the mile long trigger pull and he said thats how Sigs are. Next I tried his .45 and the same mile long trigger pull.

As we shot more and more rounds I found out a few things, first I do not like the trigger pull on the Sigs as its rediculously long! I didn't measure it but if wasn't at least a full inch I'd be surprised, hell I wouldn't be surprised if it were longer. NOT a fan of that Trigger thats for sure! Secondly I couldn't believe that my damn near 100 year old Luger was out shooting his brand new Sigs. I thought my Luger shot high to the left but today she was firing dead straight and level where his sigs were both shooting low and we shot at 25, 50 and 75 feet and it seemed the futher out with the Sigs the lower the rounds would drop where as my Luger stayed dead level all the way out the 75 feet. Now I am no expert by any means and perhaps it was due to the different calibers but again I was not impressed with his Sigs.

Now I know there are MANY Sig fans out there and I'm sure they'll have a different opinion but I gotta tell you (and not trying to offend anyone here) but my 99 year old train wreck of a Luger SMOKED those new Sigs! In terms of trigger pull, balance, feel and accuracy those Sigs couldn't hold a candle to the Luger. 2 out 4 of his guns were useless and kept jamming where as we went thru 150 rounds of 9mm in my Luger without a single issue at all, it was great!

Now I just need to find a .45 that handles like my 9mm Luger and I'm buying it. Any recommendations, and don't say Sig! LOL! :roflmao:

Hey Terry,

Good to hear your range story.

I have a Sig 226 which I do like quite a bit. In double action, it does have a long pull, but this shortens somewhat on single action.

If all your friend's pistols were brand new, know that it sometimes takes a few hundred rounds before everything settles and wears in on a new gun.

There are basic design issues that would prevent me from wanting to carry a Luger as a CCH firearm.

If you are a fan of very short trigger pull, and want a .45, the best you can get is a well made M1911A1 pistol. My own preference is for Springfield Armory made 1911s, but you'll find a range of good ones available. A "Commander" size M1911A1 makes a good carry firearm.

Obviously the grip angle and side ejection of a M1911A1 is quite different when compared with your Luger.

Marc

I guess I should have been more clear when I said "brand new", they're brand new compaired to my Luger LOL! He's had them for a couple years and I'm not sure how much ammo he's run thru em.

I don't plan to use it as a carry gun cause I live in the socialist republic of Maryland and the only way you can have a carry permit is if you "verk for zee state". I was looking at the Springfield 1911's cause of price its funny you should recommend them, guess my next step is to go try to rent one at a local range and try it out. Thanks Marc.

Terry..Good range report..I love to shoot Lugers. The 1911a1 is a close second. A policeman Friend sold me his accurized Colt and I can hit golf balls with it at 50 feet. They NEVER jam. John Browning designed the best pistol on the Planet with the 1911a1.

The new line of Sig pistols (last 3 or 4 years) have less than shining reviews, as well as some with serious quality control issues.

I have a 1990 production "Made in W. Germany" marked P-220 .45 ACP that has never failed, and is as nearly as accurate as my Remington-Rand match 1911A1. The trigger is smooth and crisp. Wouldn't think of disposing of it...

My experiences with Sig sort of mirror Ron's. I don't own a new Sig, but do own 4 older guns(more than 5-7 years old). My 239 in 9mm is frequently my CCW, as it has never choked on any ammo that I have fed it. Actually all of my Sigs run 100% reliable, and that covers 9mm, 357Sig, 40 S&W calibers. Your friend definitely has a problem that is not common with Sig handguns. The Navy SEAL teams use the Sig handguns because of their reliability.

I got the SIG P6 9mm Police Trade in. A Single stack 9mm also known as the 225. Great Gun, reliable and more than accurate enough for it's intended purpose. Got it when the prices were right. Now there bringing alot more.

Not sure what was up with his but 2 out of 4 of what he brought out failed, IMO that is NOT what I want out of a hand gun.

I had a long talk with the wife and due to the recent problems in the neighborhood we're looking at adding a .45 for the home and she is 100% on board with it. She even went so far as to tell me she wants me to take her to the range and teach her to use the Luger until we get the .45 and then she wants to learn about the .45. I'm thrilled as she's FINALLY start to realize guns are not the enemy and are just a tool that how it is used is dependant on the person whom is holding it. Her mother had her convinced guns are evil and kill everyone who is around them like some kind of crazed rabid wolf or grizzly bear. So a 1911 will be joining the ranks of our home.

Try a P210.

Had a 9m/m 226 and a .40S&W 239 in the past. The 226 was an old one had West Germany marking on the slide and twisted steel wire recoil spring. The NIB 239 had Exeter New Hampshire slide and I noticed they changed recoil spring as well. My 239 was not very accurate. But both 226 and 239 worked reliably in range. It's a little bit boring to shoot them, but they can be good candidates for emergency handling. Main drawback - the grip is too big for me to comfortably hold them. The dealer told me 239 grip was designed for woman's hand size. I could not admit to him reaching the trigger was still not easy, so I bought it. Of course, that problem does not varnish. I shot it a few times in range and sold it later.

It is hard to go wrong with a quality 1911, and there are many of them available. IF, your wife finds out that she doesn't care for the recoil of self defence, or range 45ACP ammo, there are some very nice 1911s in 9mm also....just a thought.

You were a prime candidate for the Sig short trigger that is available for many Sig handguns. It really makes a difference in trigger reach. I have one in all of my sigs. I am not surprised that your accuracy was less than stellar with your Sigs, or any handgun that has too large of a grip for your hand.

We're gonna go rent a Rock Island 1911 and take the Luger too so she can step up from the 9 to the 45. I can get a used RI 1911 for $400 at a local shop but new is only $50 more so I'm thinking go with a new one. Later I may step up to a high quality 1911 but I figure what the hell I'll try the RI as it has good reviews and is inexpensive.

My carry gun is a well worn SIG 226 police trade-in. Don't ask about the round count cause I don't have a clue, but it sounds like maraccas when you shake it. Still, it goes bang every time and is almost as accurate as my Ruger MkII .22. Wouldn't trade it for anything. :cheers:

Terry,
I recently bought a new entry-level GI 1911 A1, by High Standard, CNC machined in the Phillipines. It seems true to the original 1911 configuration, down to the narrow spline front sight. The reviews I read, one stood it up against the Springfield 1911, which it surpassed in accuracy, and equaled in qulaity of fit and finish. (It's the one I posted about molding the holster for.) These are about $400 new, and you might be happy with one of these.
I've also been casting about, trying to decide on a potential carry gun. The 5" 1911 is just too much, so I was thinking of something Commander size in .45 ACP. I came across the Ruger p345 R, and this one just might be at the top of the list. Since I've discovered that the Commander size in 1911 format seems to be less available from others than it is from Colt--~$800 seem the minimum price range for the Colts. The Ruger is around $400 new. The "R" in the model # stands for the Picatinny rail it has, a possible plus if a laser is added.
The relatively new design of the Ruger offers a grip that is way more friendly than its immediate predecessors, and the pistol is about an iinch thick, also an improvement if it's to be carried concealed. I'm not necessarily a detractor of composite frames any more, so will not dismiss offhand a gun that has one. The Ruger's reviews also remark about its light recoil, comparing it to a .380. This surprises me for such a light pistol, but if it's also true, that would be a good thing for your wife, who might do better, in general, to be hurling small planetoids at an assailant, than 9mm slugs, particularly if the gun kicks less than a full size 9!

Never heard of High Standard but I will deff check them out, thank you.

They were originally located in Mass., I think, and were sold to an outfit now located in the Midwest. I think CNC technology has opened the door to more affordable quality machined products that can even be outsourced to shops in the Philippines and still result in good accurate work and parts. IF this is true, then you'd be paying mostly for the name when buying any other non-custom, entry level 1911--in which case, why not shop just price?

I'd buy a Commander from them, but they don't make one. Still leaning toward the Ruger...

My thinking exactly! Why pay a grand if $400 will get you get same thing?

any one reading this forum knows how i feel about the 1911's. To me nothing compares but it goes much deeper ,as a texas farm boy in 1970 joining the military it was the first automatic pistol i ever fired . That was when the attraction and respect began. I would go on to carry one in combat and use it for my defense and the lives of others, there is no deeper bond between a soldier and his weapon than that.Since then i have perhaps owned hundreds ,sold and traded . The ones i have kept are dear to me.That being said ,just how much will you fire one??? Will the frame and parts stand up???? Is the heat treating correct???? Is the cheaper price worth staking your life on???? Ask these questions and think about it before you buy , my regards Padre

For a .45, take the best of both (or 3) worlds:

Sig-Sauer manufactured Mauser M2 pistol :)

When you invest in a 1911A1, don't cut financial corners. Buy an Ed Brown, a Les Bauer or a Volkmann. You will spend $2,000 and up, but you won't be getting guns made with inferior parts and you won't be disappointed. You get what you pay for. I had to learn from experience and a lot of money wasted on lesser manufactured 1911s.

I will agree somewhat, I tend to use brown, bauer and wilson parts on my 1911's ,but have never owned a complete pistol. I am lucky that i can build my own. And lucky i was trained some of the best armors in the military at the time. It is really just parts and they need to be quality and then fitted and tuned, that is what you are paying for. These prices make alot of these firearms out of reach for the average person. Are they worth it ? that is up to the buyer to decide. I have worked on the rock islands and several other phillipean made sub contracted 1911's , i mostly tell the owners to sell them ,once you pay me and put in quality parts to fix them you will be upside down and still have a gun that is at the best average, but if not fired alot and usung standard ball ammo ,they should be ok.

back to this discussion how a 95year old luger was better than four sig sauers. one a .22 or the sig mosquito , is very ammo sensitive and usualy picky, i have never owned one that worked out of the box, they have to be tweaked , once done they are fine shooters, but sadly they do not tend to work out of the box. the others hard to say , but sure not up to the sig quality i know, as far as accuracy, i own three lugers , an erfurt is my shooter, all are nice , but none shoot any where near what my sigs will. alot of variables can come into play. The sigs owner should sure be seeking out a good gunsmith or be on the phone to sig customer service, no sig i have ever owned out side of the mosquito 's had problems like the ones you describe.

my time in the military the issue side arm was the 1911a1,mine was a remington rand ,world war two issue,the military at that time really did not put alot of emphise on handgun training, it was a fall back weapon anyway. after joining the airborne, i was selected for armors school it was there i met the old school masters of the 1911, i absorbed all the knowledge they would trust me with and it is with me to this day. 100 years later and going strong, that says something about the 1911 platform. now to the sigs, after leaving the service i found a job i liked with the texas dps, thats dept of public safety, the title is a bit deceptive lol. issue for dps is the sig sauer in .357 sig, a round i learned to love and trust. i am showing a picture of a sig 229 in .357 cal, with extra .40 sw upper, this was my duty weapon, and yes we can buy them on retirement. it has thousands of rounds fired through it, only failures were with reloaded practise ammo, 100 percent reliable, the other one is a sig 226 that was tossed fro ma vehiche at around 100 mph, i took it to a sig armors school and it was rebuilt during the school, allso 100 percent reliable, either one i will and do trust my life to. Dps considers these the best in the world for use by their dept, i agee. padre

You have to understand I have to sell the wife on getting the gun. She had HATED guns her whole life and I finally have her to the point where she wants to learn to shoot the Luger and that a $500 1911 is ok, beyond that she's gonna balk at the price and shut the whole thing down and possibly be turned off to guns as they're "too expensive". The same shop has a stainless 1911 match Colt for $1800 that I'd LOVE to get but I know what will happen if I bring it up, she'll shoot it down. I figure like this, I'll get a decent 1911 for $500 and take her out shooting it and the Luger. Tax time I HOPE to find someone that I can send my Luger out to be professionally restored, then I'll start saving up to get a NICE 1911.

You gotta take baby steps with someone who has been deathly afraid of guns since they were a child.

good process, and like i said not everyone can afford to pay the prices of some of todays top models, i think alot are way over priced to.

Most people can't run out and buy a top of the line Cadillac for thier first car but a Chevy ain't bad.

I would never have been able to go out and buy my Luger, the only reason I have it was cause it was passed down to me. This .45 will be the first new gun I ever buy.

I have been shooting, collecting modifying them since 1986. Never ever had a jam except when I was shooting .22 conversion unit prior to firing 9 mm on the same frame.