New Luger 1939- S/42 w/sear safety
 

Are all lugers with sear safeties police guns?

What does a sear safety mean in the realm of collecting lugers?

Does a sear safety make a luger more or less valuable?

Is there any body out there? Just knock if you can hear me.

Some of us work for a living. Hold on while I shower, let the dogs out, feed them, and get a handful of M&M's...

Yea. LOL

When did we install the 24hr help line?

yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

all sear safeties are police

a 1939 police is fairly rare

did you read the FAQ yet?

did you do a search on the forum?

folks here are very nice, but sometimes when folks are demanding, well, they get their backs up, me excepted :D ok, sometimes not me too, yes we are all human, and if you wait a month, you will see a new book call Police Lugers that will be published and released in September :) if all goes well

Just nod if you can here me...
Marc

Didnt mean to get anyones back up.
I didnt know if anyone monitors this forum like some of the others. I have read a number of posts and it seems to me that not many "forum Vultures" are on this forum. Seems to be real info without an agenda. Unline another german "?.eu" where the deal is to steal merchandise.

Thanks for the replies and I didnt mean to get anyone upset.


Pink floyd is a favorite.


Is there anyone at home. Actually referrs to personal mental health. Not mine though Im perfectly insane. LOL

I did search the forum. Thats how I found out what that cute little bar was. This one is in the 8000 numbers with an "N" letter. all matching but the mag. All down to the firing pin etc. . . It has had the barrel and extension refinished but I dont know when. It has the folded winged eagle on the barrel and eagle/63 twice on the right side of the extension. Grips have a 2 digit number in them in a larger but similar font.

Bob

IF the barrel and receiver have been refinished, that affects value considerably.

Pictures are needed

Sorry, I can't help you. I'm just a lost soul who exchanged a walk on part in a war for a leading role in a cage. :cool:

Jack

OK. here;s a bit more on police Lugers, from what I've read here (experts, correct me if I'm wrong)...

A Police Luger may have come from military or commercial sources; pics will determine which. Military Lugers converted to police use can include re-barreled artillery models (characterized by the sight clearance notch in the receiver) and 7.65 commercial Lugers re-barreled to 9mm, which will have a crown over N proof mark. Police Lugers may or may not have a magazine safety as well as the sear safety. The magazine safety will likely be disabled by cutting the magazine trip off. The cuts and hole in the frame may be welded shut and re-blued, or left empty with the remnants of the safety removed.

I'm sure there are other distinctive features of police Lugers; other members please continue the list...

There are collectors who specialize in police Lugers, and to them, a police Luger is more valuable than a comparable military/commercial Luger. To others, it may be less valuable.

There are some rarities in police Lugers. The 7.65 caliber comes to mind (although I forget which police unit used them),

My personal favorite is the railroad police Lugers. :)

Now, if I could, I'd like to finish my peanut M&M's... :rolleyes:

Postino:
Not all Lugers with sight clearance notches in the receiver top were "Artillerys" (LP.08). All late war Erfurts had this notch and none of them were LP.08s.
Bob

Bob, he should buy Police Lugers by Dwight Gruber and Edward Tinker, then he could point to it :)

Correct. That is why my post says "can include re-barreled artillery models (characterized by the sight clearance notch"... :thumbup:

I'm saving my money for the latest (and best) edition; hopefully being released soon... :D

Well, cool...who would have thought there were so many Floydians on the Luger Forum?:rockon:

That's not exactly what you said. Read your whole statement in-context. You say, "Military Lugers converted to police use can include re-barreled artillery models (characterized by the sight clearance notch in the receiver). You are correct in saying that police reworks can include Artillery models. Then you continue to say "artillery models (characterized by the sight clearance notch in the receiver) - which implies that a sight clearance notch in the receiver characterizes an artillery model. This is not so. Erfurt P.08s had this clearance notch also.
I stand by my post!
Bob

in the same spirit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA5POB9bqSQ

Guys, here's a way to look at it: Though Artillery Lugers absolutely needed the top fronts of the barrel extensions relieved to allow the tangent sight mounted on the barrel to fully function, is it not true that after a certain date (1914 comes to mind, for no coherent reason.) all P.08 barrel extensions (military, at least) had the same relief, regardless of ultimate configuration? I remember reading a possible explanation, that to do them all actually was more efficient than keeping them sorted out.

So, wouldn't one resort to the serial number of a P.08 converted from an LP.08 to have any clue to discovering this conversion? I'm thinking other clues would be marks documenting the conversion, characteristics of the replacement (or not) barrel, and maybe the rear toggle link, which would be swapped in--to provide a rear sight to replace the tangent sight on the former long barrel.

So, does the notch on my 1917/1920 DWM military mean it was originally an Artie, or was it made since the cut bacame typical? I know this started out being about a police Luger, but now I'm wondering.

If whcoyote is correct (and why not?), then only Erfurts had the notch without actually being artilleries. Your DWM would have been an artillery originally. DWM would have added the extra machining step for arties; Erfurt decided to make them all with the notch (until artilleries were discontinued - in 1914 you say?).

Makes sense. Or as much sense as anything in the Luger world.

Let's keep going. Discussion poses more questions; which prompts more answers.

I started out simply enjoying the thread, and then reached over the end of the bed behind me and picked up my Luger. Which is a double date (1917/1920) and also has the relief cut on the chamber for the sight. Still has the regular three military proofs and a SN without a letter, making it (I think) the first part of 1917 production. (3699) It does not have the calibre markings on the bottom of the bbl. The stamping of the SN on the bbl is relatively faint and a slightly smaller size.

The rest of the pistol is matching with another SN. So who did the mixing of the bbl/extension and the rest of the pistol? Do I have an Erfurt/DWM mix or?

I also appreciate knowing what to call the "ears". It's not really a "receiver," so it's good to know what the general "name" for that part of the pistol is."

I had no idea I'd suddenly be inspired to become of part of this erudite discussion.

you mean on the back of the frame? I call em toggle ramps, for lack of a better term

Milburn:
1917/1920 indicates a 1917 pistol having the 1920 property stamp. These markings are on the receiver, of course, and indicate Weimar-period rework. You can discern the original manufacturer of the receiver by: (1) the style of firing proof mark (DWM and Erfurt proof eagles had different styles) This only works for receivers as late in the war you will find Erfurt-style firing proofs on the barrels and some breech blocks of original DWM pistols (lots of conjecture as to why - some think that an Erfurt inspector was reassigned to DWM and took his stamps with him); (2) the shape of the top of the numeral "3". If it is round-topped it was made at DWM, if it is flat-topped, it was made at Erfurt.
If this receiver, having the sight-clearance notch, came from DWM, it was originally an LP.08. If it came from Erfurt, it was a P.08 as Erfurt made no LP.08s marked other than 1914. However, as before, all late-war Erfurt P.08s had the clearance cut. DWM pistols did not have a clearance cut unless they were LP.08s - in any year.
It is not surprising that there is no caliber marking (bore size) on the barrel. As they were replaced during the rework - some were marked with the bore size, some were not. An interesting thing to look for is the shape of the "3" in your barrel S/N. If your pistol is a DWM and the tops of the "3" on the barrel S/N is flat, it was most certainly replaced. If it is a round-topped "3", it was probably still replaced as the absence of the bore dia. indicates. What do the acceptance stamps and firing proofs on the barrel look like?
Erfurt spare parts, machinery and numbering dies were sent to Simson & Co. after WWI and after that, some went to the Berlin Technical Police Armory after Simson & Co. was closed at the beginning of the Third Reich era. The rest of this apparatus went to Krieghoff.
Hard to tell why you may have a mix of DWM/Erfurt parts. You will need someone with more knowledge than me to tell, probably with a hands-on inspection. Why not start a new thread about your pistol, with good photos, and you will get plenty of responses.
As for "ears" there are two sets which could be called this. One set of "ears" are the toggle ramps, or toggle camming surfaces, found at the rear of the frame. The other set is found at the rear of the receiver forks (the receiver resembles a tuning fork at it's rear end) and this enlarged area is to provide reinforcement for the toggle axle.
As for nomenclature, the frame is the part of the pistol that has the grips attached, houses the trigger, recoil spring, hold-open device and has the toggle cams at the rear. The receiver fits into rails on top of the frame. It accepts the barrel at it's front and the toggle train is fitted into grooves at it's rear portion. The complete receiver assembly, including barrel and toggle train is referred to as the "cannon". As it might imply, the cannon may be loaded with a cartridge and fired without being assembled into the frame. I wouldn't recommend trying this as I have no idea what the consequences of recoil might be.
Hope this helps.
Bob

Interesting. I don't think I've seen that written up before. Is that from your own observations, or has it been written up in one of the many books that I've not read yet???

I have only one (of three) with a "3" in the serial, and it is a commercial with a DWM toggle.

I knew about the 1920 property stamp already, but need tightening up in the knowledge about the receivers' cuts--which mfgrs. did them, which didn't, when, and why.

My 17/20 sn 5850i presents some interesting things when examined closely. The pistol is matching, x-grips (which are revealed by their poor fit--a bit of extra bit of wood slightly proud at the edges of the grip straps)--but the font on the barrel's serial number is different, in that the tops of the 5's have a dip to them, and the 5's are straight across on the rest of the guns numbers. The tone of the barrel's finish is darker than the rest of the components, and its surface is smoother than the rest of the gun, which was bead blasted and refinished over the remaining tiny pits/freckling. The "8.82"'s hash mark/decimal point is very long and each of the numbers was struck at least three times. Haloes? forget it. (The number on the extractor was also forced/over-stamped in its digit 5.) The witness mark looks OK.

I'd figured the barrel had been changed out at some point, and now I can probably deduce that its change, and the refinishing, and maybe the numbers' eccentricities could have happened during an official rework. Whether this would have coincided with the 1920 property stamping's application, I do not know.

I will also heed the suggestion to start a new topic about this gun, later. We can get into the 5 proof marks on the receiver then.

whcoyote -

I asked because I was wondering if you have a large collection. There are a dozen or more members here who each have a dozen or more Lugers...I know there is at least one member who has over 100 Lugers!!! :eek: Checking them over, perhaps with a magnifying glass (and a large glass of port) for differences/similarities in the number "3" sounds exactly like something they would do, on a slow night at home... :rolleyes:

I don't have any kind of collection, but I was outside in my garage last night comparing connecting rods for Kohler 7hp tractor engines...and I found two that differed in length by 1/8"... :(

So I am certainly not disparaging your observation on the "3" stampings...I'd just like to see your collection!!! :D