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Newly discovered Luger from an old collection, valuable?

You have a very scarce and desirable "G DATE" Mauser Luger, which has lost a good percentage of its collector value by being buffed and reblued.

Your gun is now at the top of the "Shooter Grade" Luger category, but will not realize the full potential of what it could have been worth, since it has lost its value to a serious collector. I'd put your Luger in the $800-$900 range.

nice one , great shooter, too bad it was heavly buffed and reblued, i agree with doug 800 to 900 range , enjoy it you havea vry nice shooter and welcome to the forum

I would love if you had preblueing pictures. A question to my dear collegues, Under what circumstances if any should a luger be buffed and reblued if any?

Depends on the owner, I guess. Some people I know would reblue a gun the second wear on the edges appeared, wanting the gun to still look "brand new". Back when this was likely done, people did not realize they were hurting future value on fine collectables.

I would say a reblued G date would be worth more, maybe $1000 ?

Yes, a desirable luger, but once reblued the value was cut in half (more than half)

Thank guys, that's great information. Somewhat disappointing, but important to know. It seems the concensus is $850.

Like taking a belt sander to the Mona Lisa. I have to compliment you on your photo's though! Very well done!

I'd ask more than $850. Tto me it isn't alll that bad. I see a $1000 gun that might bring just a bit more. But it depends on to whom you market it.
dju
dju

Like most of the others, I feel it is worth in the 800 dollar range; however, I also know that most dealers would put a price of 1500 -1800 dollars on it.

Just out of curiosity, how did you come by this pistol and if you purchased it what did you pay?

Richard

Richard, first sentence.....

A family member recently passed and I was asked about a Luger which had been hidden away for many years.

Welcome to the forum.

A nice G date even if reblued. There should be no problem selling that if desired.

I would start out at $1200 and have a bottom end of $950.

hmmm...I think the disparity in the price estimates may be attributable to the region in which we
individually dwell.

Just checked both the Jones book and Lugers at random, so that I might emerge from the fray slightly unscathed...

Since this pistol still has the rust blue finish, could you give the gentleman the benefit of the doubt and ask to see the pistol disassembled and check to see whether or not the inside is blued or in the white?

I know the side plate looks really buffed, and the proofs are stamped very lightly, but the view of the back strap has the edges still very, very sharp. And they didn't blue the magazine.

Just asking, from the point of a newbie, but I'd hate for him to have such a scarce pistol and not realize it's full worth.

You guys are the experts, but can I take the position of a distant aunt wanting a second opinion for a much loved nephew? Take it apart and check the inside?

Just wanting to learn here, so be gentle. And I realize that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by milburn (Post 217021)

Since this pistol still has the rust blue finish, could you give the gentleman the benefit of the doubt and ask to see the pistol disassembled and check to see whether or not the inside is blued or in the white?

I know the side plate looks really buffed, and the proofs are stamped very lightly, but the view of the back strap has the edges still very, very sharp. And they didn't blue the magazine.

Barry, the whiteness of the inside metal would only reveal that it's either been rust blued--or possibly cleaned up, which I think would be an exception. If a pistol is stripped clean and reblued by the rust method, it would still be in the white because the second finish would be applied by the same technique, wiping the chemical solution on; it make no sense to treat the inside surfaces, particularly the areas that move against one another in the upper. A blued finish is actually a form of manipulated and controlled corrosion--literally, rust. It is abrasive to the steel when rubbed around on it, and NOT finishing the insides avoids some premature or excessive wear.

The planes and angles of a Luger are used to help determine whether the surface has been buffed for a refinish, as do the conditions of the stampings. In an unmolested stamping, one can detect a tiny rim around the perimeter of each figure. This is because when the steel is struck with a die, the material that once occupied the actual volume taken up by the impression left mUst go somewhere in order for this to happen. It is pushed away, crowding excess material to be squished out and up, around the figure the die presents. This distortion is most often accompanied by a "halo", which is a thinning of the dark finish in accord with this profound, though small, metallurgical change. The molecules that make up the grain are physically shifted and re-arranged, and they actually become harder (work hardened) than the original base material. The pic of the right front of the bbl. extn. shows that these edges have been worked down dead flat, flush with the surrounding surface, by use of a sanding block. So, edges and halos gone. If the edges remain and their color and tone match the surrounding surface, a gun would be suspected of having been re-blued without physical action taken to the surface beforehand, as in one that had been chemically stripped.

The guns that have the reputation for nice, smooth surfaces, I think, are the early ones, the civilian commercial models, and maybe some Kreighoffs. Regular military Lugers show some tool marks from machining processes--the swirls from an end mill, slightly misaligned start and stop points, second passes, etc., particularly, it is said, toward the ends of the wars, under the hurried conditions of their construction. The surfaces on yours that have not been buffed have been sanded too nice and flat and smooth IMO to be original. the barrel has been smoothed/sanded to the extent that the ubiquitous 8.** dimension of the I.D between the lands has been almost removed.

Overall a nice job, if a refinish, with the exception of the wavy side plate. Wait to see if my pronouncements bear up under peer review, but I think I'm not too far off. Oh, almost forgot...My impression is that there was not much priority given to re-bluing of magazines, and so this observation would not be used in this equation.

Thanks for the explanations. I hesitated to write, but it is sooo pretty. I was partially going by the fact that most re-blues of the era would not have taken the time to do an original rust blue job.

I suppose what we really need is a way to make these things talk. Failing that, experts that are patient and knowledgeable such as we have here that willingly share their wisdom will be our salvation in understanding what is, and what is not, correct.

Thanks again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curly1 (Post 216992)

A nice G date even if reblued. There should be no problem selling that if desired.

I would start out at $1200 and have a bottom end of $950.

+ 1 on the price, would fetch that locally here quite easily.
You have a paradox...Collectors prize the G date, but loathe re-finishing...casual gun show buyers like the 'new' look, but could care less about the 'G' date... :rolleyes:

So it's an orphan...A low end collectible, and/or a high end shooter... :D

Thanks again to all who posted.

I can just see all the luger gutter frauds scrambling to come up with a different way to buff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugersrkewl (Post 217340)

I can just see all the luger gutter frauds scrambling to come up with a different way to buff.

Counterfeiters don't "buff". A serious fake requires all hand finishing. Buffing always rounds over corners, blurs markings and creates waves in flats. A high dollar fake requires the same care as a quality restoration. Sometimes the only difference between a fake and a restoration is how it is represented in the for sale ad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw (Post 216875)

I would love if you had preblueing pictures. A question to my dear collegues, Under what circumstances if any should a luger be buffed and reblued if any?

NEVER

--Dwight

Dwight..Never is an absolute and it is never a good idea to use never!

A 1916 came to me badly rusted..A Police conversion with the matching # holster & tool. An all matching Luger pistol. After I hammered it apart with a wooden sledge..I took it completely down, soaked it in oil and soft wire brushed it back to white metal. It was never buffed but rust blued by Charles Danner. It is now a presentable fully functioning Luger..brought back from the dead IMO. Yes..it is reblued and has pitting..but what other choice was there to retrieve this pistol from the rusty clutches of destruction?
I put way more money into it than I should have but IMO I preserved a piece of history as well as can be done under the circumstances.

This is aimed at those of you beleive reblue enhances you guns value. I beleive reblueing should be a last resort, left only to restorer like Ted! That and silicone leave to the experts. Valid wear is part of the mystic. Face it legitamate guns show wear as I don't beleive in 'Luger Virgins'. A while back someone was proud of the reblueing on a test piece or other trophy. NEVER NEVER NEVER! I got sick!! Someone doesn't deserve to it. Some survived more that 100 years to face an acid bath for someones' vanity. Mechanically I would have it checked and maybe make it servicable. I would ask Ted or the few others to make sure that what they really want and maybe a self prescribed a chill out waiting period as I am super impulsive!Such treatment can wind up a bad totoo~! Unlike a bad marriage than call be a divorsed or anulled theres no turning back. Take a good long thought! Once performed can never be opriginal again! Every day it will be a visual reminder what its NOT! a cheep attempt of a luger virginity!! You will have to answer that first question has it been tampered with? or when and if you try to sell it or trade it away!!I PREACH LOVE WHAT IVE GOT!! She made it through 2 world wars and several owners who opted to keep it like the day that we acquired it. I'm sure they are beautiful in their own way! Its beautiful in any condition or History! At least take your time THE REBLUEING OPTION WILL ALWAYS BE THERE. Sone you will fall back in love. There are situations to be used as a last resort. Before you decide weigh all options and ask Ted Green who I trust more than anyone he will give you his honest opinion. Believe Me Ted has plenty of business and a tough audience.You married her when you bought her! Show her the respect you both deserve. Happy Lugering, Eric aka cirelaw!

luger buffs hate buffed lugers

Jerry,

I was referring to the entire statement, buffed and reblued.