Forum activity
 

Is it just my impression, or has activity on this forum really tapered off in the past couple of months? I really miss the in depth discussions and I am not smart enough to start one.

Neil

This was a good start Neil! Lugerforum discussions vary depending on what interesting items have surfaced for sale recently and what new collectors have asked about. There have been a couple of good discussions lately, but overall I agree that the well has been pretty dry lately.

What we need is a good .45 caliber Luger to come out of the woodwork and we can debate it's orginality... that is always a lively topic... :D

Thanks John. I like the lively discussions, but I don't want to get the Russian Luger thing going again.

Neil

I'll try to get a small discussion started. I have a very nice "Brown Recluse" byf 42. I can't really understand why a "Black Widow" version is apparently worth more, or is more desirable than one with the nice walnut grips. To me, the baklite grips and the plactic base magazines look like a cheap version of the "real thing". I've got the feeling that if I ever want to sell this pistol, that I will have to get some bakelite grips (I've already got the magazine).

I know that this was a sales gimick, but evidently it has long legs now.

Neil

Hi Niel, I didn't want to mention it, but Phoenix Investment Arms has just listed a 1906 Russian. Where's Albert when you need him?
Best regards, Norm

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/

Oh well, since the cat is out of the bag, maybe someone will take up the gauntlet.

Neil

hmmm...I saw that 1906 Russian luger at Phoenix Investments. I am certainly not an expert but my gut tells me that $12K is a little high.

I have looked at every luger on that site and I do believe that he is way high on many of his pistols.

On the other hand, you will have the peace of mind of knowing that you are getting a fine, as advertised luger when you buy from Phoenix; but you best go in with deep pockets.

But, you know...its not like you can just walk into a store and find a 1906 Russian Luger just any where...

Fourm Activity
 

I think that if you let Harry Greer back on the fourm you will get
a lot of fourm Activity and great things to talk about.
Thanks George:thumbup:

George..Harry asked to be banned. Be carerful what you ask for. I offered a way for him to return and he turned up his nose at my generous offer so I think Harry has no interest in this Forum.

Neil,

Price is all about supply and demand.

Value is all about perception.

By making a large number of people perceive the Bakelite grip / plastic magazine base version of the last Lugers as attractive and desirable (making them valuable) the demand grew as the supply remained stable. Thus the price rose. There will always be a limited number of original Lugers in their original factory configuration.

Interestingly, if you have the appropriate very late 1940, 1941 or 1942 Luger, you can make a "Black Widow" by adding the Bakelite grips - which were unnumbered - and then selling off the numbered ones separately. With a surplus of Bakelite grips you could make some money by branding the configuration to make it more memorable ("Black Widow" - now that is sinister isn't it...). Since the plastic base magazines were not numbered, if you had a number of these you'd even end up with a correct all matching configuration right down to the magazine.

A couple of years ago, I bought a Luger that Ralph Shattuck had sold, marketing it to the person I bought it from as a "Black Widow". That made it more valuable to him, and probably made the sale. Unfortunately, it was a 1939 Luger (a year or more prior to the start of the use of Bakelite grips). Fortunately, wood grips were not always numbered that year. So, I was able to correct the mis-match and have a pair of original brown/black grips (albeit two different types - Bakelite Type 1 and Type 4) spare. I just recently removed the black lacquer that had made them both appear Black for the widow.

Obviously, the correct configuration of the Luger was more valuable to me, and I spent the money for original grips to correct the defect. Now, if I can just find that correct numbered magazine!!!

Marc

I think even Albert would have to admit that this is a beautiful example of the 'later' Russian contract 1906 Lugers...And with a Tula stamped barrel!!! How rare can you get??? :)

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/1480Russ06.htm

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...ss06-Bot8w.jpg

Lots of interesting facts stated there by PIA... :thumbup:

(Chamber graphic needs more white stuff...) :D

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...s06-Logo4w.jpg

That really is a beautiful Luger...

Hi Richard, Before you get too excited, do a forum search on the seller, Phoenix Investment Arms (P.I.A). Regards, Norm

Looks hardly used... :evilgrin:

I think Michael ******** should use some of his Facebook stock split/public offering profits and buy this excellent Russian Contract 1906 Luger... :thumbup:

Let's chasing good ones.... The Yugo contract FN 1922 on PIA looks great. My budget is tight these days though....

Here's a link to a recent thread featuring P.I.A. from the "other forum". Regards, Norm

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...restocking+fee

My first luger was Tom. It was a 1906 'Manufacture de Francaise' and nowI buy exclusivly from my favorite George' my new mentor. Tom fullfills a void, the history, although often embelished. I took 'LUGER 101' by reading his history section. ' He's been here as long as anyone. An example is some dirt bag "MAL AU CUE! you are writing about. As far as Tom, He alway been and will be there!. At least you can call if you have a question. If you are about to lay out thousands for a singular picture from a luger seller on just the web You really on a blind date. Lets try to buy from one our own! George opened a new window of excitement to me.Twentty-five years as a trial Lawyer taught me ask allot of questions.Face it your favorite luger has outlivd two of my exwives! Im sure many of you owned your favorite luger than any of you wives of girlfriends. Treat them well and the will be there longer than you!Today I got the nicest complaint from Jan himself, That was an A+ on my luger report card! Good Night!

I agree with George in regards to Harry Greer!!
Jan

This might start some discussion...

Described as a Luger experimental sideplate from Switzerland.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Luger-Experi...item484562d755

AAC has a sale session today, including some nice Lugers, Mausers, Brownings, etc.

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/

Hi Norme,

I found this which is really a great thread http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ent+buyhttp://...EVERY new collector should read this carefully!
Fore warned, is fore armed!!!

This is a poll conducted by Ed Tinker. The question was what dealers would you purchase from again...the voting results were as follows:

It is interesting to copy, then sort what info is here, as of 9-18-07;

Bill Christensen, CA USA 0 0%
Wimer Collectible Firearms (George Wimer), OR USA 0 0%
Fred Fiet, IL USA 2 1.14%
Krausewerk Collectibles (Mike Krause), CA USA 2 1.14%
I choose not to participate in the Poll. 2 1.14%
Mid West Firearms (Ken Kontos/Jack Sweeney) MN USA 3 1.71%
Phoenix Investment Arms (Tom Etowski), NC USA 3 1.71%
DFW Firearms, TX USA 4 2.29%
Walley Morishige, NV USA 5 2.86%
G&G Relics, Gil Hoffman, MI USA 5 2.86%
I do not buy from Dealers, ever. 8 4.57%
Adams Guns (Bob Adams), NM USA 9 5.14%
Down East Anitiques (Joe Salter), NH USA 9 5.14%
Relics Of The Reichs (Mike Morris), TX USA 9 5.14%
Check-Point Charlies, WI USA 13 7.43%
World Of Lugers (Ralph Shattuck), AZ USA 14 8.00%
Other dealers, not listed. 17 9.71%
Collector Firearms (Rany Bessler), NV USA 20 11.43%
Simpsons LTD (Bob & Brad Simpson), IL USA 24 13.71%
FGS, Inc. (Doug Smith/Ken Clark), OH USA 26 14.86%

Many of the dealers got upwards of 10%! So, looks like Phoenix is not the best vendor in the jungle.

Thanks, Norme...good post! :thumbup:

Looks like PIA Tom's account on gunbroker.com being Jagerbrief. Three negative feedbacks on the account, but all three are same nature: buyer had been happy initially, but not happy after some days (probably after consulting someone). Unfortunately, "three days" had passed, and he's very strict on that. So there was some conflicts.

At least, the sample gunbroker.com ad that I read (item#286554857) has never mentioned magic word "original". It's pretty, it's black, it's in eyes of beholders, etc, but, you know.... we have to agree: the description matches the gun (at least on the sample). If acquired and not happy, what's the good reason to return? isn't it black? :)

Off to the Colorado Gun Collectors Show today. 1400 tables. Maybe I can find something new... LOL

FN

The show was light on lugers. Mostly civil war and old west. One a KI, not a KU, was represented to me as a 1933. Mauser frame, KI on the chamber, Erfurt toggle. Pretty beat up.

What????

But I had 'Luger Lust'. Gotta buy something... so I made a beginner's move. Bought something without studying the books first.

So, now what do I have? My reference books have little on info concerning these.

Fred,
Got your email. I am away from home right now and can receive but not send emails. I'll respond when I get home. First impression...looks loke a very nice late production 1900 Commercial.

Fred:
According to the data that I could find, Ron is correct, which is what we would expect. The 1900 commercial serial number range was 50-19,627; so your 19,360 fits in there nicely. According to the data, there were only 5,750 of this version made. So, besides being a beautiful example, it is apparently very rare and desirable. Hopefully I read the data correctly and haven't made another stupid mistake. Good catch.

Neil

Thanks all. Where/what should be marked? How does one remove the extractor? How does one remove the toggle lock? Or should these things be left alone?

There is no point in removing them. They are not marked internally.

The extractor is removed by lifting up on the forward end until the little lug on the bottom of the extractor clears the corresponding detent in the breechblock, then pulling forward out of the breechblock. Very easy to damage the extractor in the process.

The toggle lock is removed by drifting out the pivot pin in the toggle knob. The lock has a small spring inside at the top that can easily be lost and it is really fiddley to try to hold all the parts together while re-installing the pivot pin.

I highly recommend leaving them alone. Even for someone experienced with their removal, chances of marring or damage are high and IMHO not at all worth the risk.

...$3500???... :rolleyes:

Very nice. :thumbup:

I would prefer my Lugers with a stock lug, but if price was right [low], I would consider one without... :rolleyes:

Fnorm,

Looks like a really nice Luger.
From what I see in the pics, looks like it has good straw and blue.

I think you got a very collectible luger...enjoy it!!!

Richard

Super nice 1900.

Why is there another number under the barrel? Is that standard practice in this serial neighborhood?

===

I mean, the number below BUG, 17x28 (I could not read the middle digit)....

Alvin,
That is the early designation for caliber...it is 178,28 or the number of lead balls of 7.65mm diameter necessary to weigh a pound.

I didn't understand this serial number range.
I own a 1900 Commercial with a higher serial number than the last one reported above (#21359). Or I am missing something?

BTW, that was a nice addition to your collection. Not bad at all for a "newbie"! :thumbsup:

Douglas

Douglas:
I may be misinterpreting the data tables in Still's Imperial Lugers, but the serial number range that I gave is shown on page 11. According to the same table, your s/n 21359 falls into the 1902 model variation (21232-24792), with 3,560 units made. If so, then this would be even more rare. The listed characteristics are 4", 9mm barrel; short frame and dished toggle with the 3-piece toggle lock.

However, after reading Dwight Gruber's earlier comments on your Luger, I yield to a much more knowledgeagle person. As you already know, his comments are as follows: "...sn 21359 was mixed in with the ...(1902) carbines in a transition range ending at sn 21592."

Once again, I have fallen into the trap of thinking any early information on these lovely pistols is straightforward.

Neil

When I purchsed my 1937 Kriegoff I told Charlie what I had and that I need the 'trimmings'. Within the week he fixed me up, A now have the proper case, Kreighoff takedown tool and the manuel. Also including the finest H.EGER& LINDE SCHMALKALDKALDEN 1937 holster. I also have had him from time to time various sundries and go me quick payment. He is definitly worth a try!

Neil,

Don't worry. Once in a while I am caught by this kind of mistake.:rolleyes:

All the best,
Douglas