"Sneak" Luger
 

Greetings!

I am a long time shooter and collector, but a noob to the Luger world. I was offered a Luger at the LGS, and would like opinions as to it's provenance. It is a refinished pistol, no chamber date, plastic grips, no import marks. Bore is VERY good and overall condition is excellent. I was told that it is probably a 'sneak' Luger, without certain proof marks to avoid post WWI arms restrictions.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/u...oil/photo3.jpg
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/u...oil/luger2.jpg
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/u...oil/luger1.jpg

What is the consensus here?? I know it is refinished, that does not matter to me.. I am wanting a decent shooter, not a historical piece.

What is an LGS? Some kind of religious group?

You need close ups of the markings on the left or right.

Read the FAQ and see what it says about 'sneaks' a term I do not fully agree with....

Sorry about that., LGS= Local Gun Shop
These are all the photos I have right now. I(At work offshore)

Too hard to say, if any markings on the right, then it is probably a weimar era luger.

If any crown N on the left, then a commercial.

What is the caliber?

If 'refinished' then any markings could have been removed, and if refinished, probably here in the USA.

Don't believe the 'if it is from the 1920's it is old parts blah, blah....

Those grips don't look plastic to me.......

Best guess from pics provided is 29 sneak police. proofing on right side of upper recever and barrel, blank toggle, sear safe. Nice crisp edges, are you sure it is refinished? John

I personally have not reviewed this pistol.. I am currently offshore at work.
I was told that the gun had been refinished, and the fellow at the gun store took and emailed me these pics. I have bought many guns from this store and have NO REASON to doubt the info provided me. I believe the gun is a commercial mutt or mixed number gun, and that is all right with me...just wanting a decent shooter. I do apologize for not being able to provide more info about proof marks, serial numbers, etc...but what kind of price would considered to be fair for this piece? I thank you all for your knowledge and expertise.

There is no such thing as a sneak Luger.

It appears that there is no DWM on the toggle. The gun has a sear safety. The marks on the right are those to be expected on an alphabet DWM/29DWM police Luger. I tried to extract a serial number suffix, it was nearly impossible but it might be u, which would be proper on a gun like this.

I agree that the grips look good.

From the photos, I would not want to assume that it has been reblued.

I think this gun might be a "sleeper." If you can get it for a shooter price, $800 or less, it is probably a good deal. IT might have a story to tell, and it might be worth more, depending.

Will they hold it for you until you can get there to examine it? Will they take other pictures for you?

Please let us know the outcome of this.

--Dwight

I truly appreciate the input. The shop is holding this gun for me until I am able to inspect it in person, and from the photos, the pistol looks pretty good. I was not wanting a Russian capture or one in cosmetically terrible condition, and from what I can see this one appears to be in good shape. As with my other collectibles (Pythons, FAL's, HiPowers) I have to start somewhere. Unless something unexpected surfaces, I will most likely be bringing this one home.

Guy, Sorry for using that old "sneak" word, but it made a quick, searchable reference to era/ model I was refering to.Hard to change, just like the old "black widow ". I also think Dwight is right, that this may be a sleeper, but cannot be judged from pics provided. John

Welcome to the forums.

The left grip appears to be missing the upper left corner which suggests it is an original wood grip and that a magazine safety was once installed.

Ok...I took possession of this Luger today, after a close inspection, and I'm pleased to announce that is is a numbers matching piece. It has the mauser hump, has had a mag safety installed and grip notched, and safety was removed at some pooint later. I will take some good clear close up photos and post for the edification of the knowledgable folks. It has no markings on the toggle, no chamber date, but a serial number under the barrel, and the number has a "u" suffix The grips are wood but so dark they are almost black, no numbers or stamps on the grips at all. I shot it today, and it functioned flawlessly on 115 grain ball ammo.
However, the bullet point of impact is considerably higher than point of aim...about a foot higher at 4 yards, and 2+ feet high at 25 yards. Is there anything I can do to adjust the point of impact with the sights??

Robert,

Your photo doesn't show a pistol with a Mauser hump, and you wouldn't expect to find that on a 1929 pistol. The additional milling was introduced in the late 1930s.

Congratulations on what appears to be a very nice police Luger.

Please take some good sharp pictures taken in indirect sunlight (shaded, outdoors) and let us take a look at the finish and markings.

Odd that it's shooting that far high. What Ammo are you using? Be very careful not to use high velocity (+P or "Nato") grade ammo. Just normal 115gn White Box Winchester or equiv.

A modification to lower point of impact would involve installing a taller front sight, but that would (of course) destroy it's all matching status and collect ability... Of course, so would breaking a numbered part...

The problem may be hold related. Try a six o'clock hold (resting the bull's eye black area on top of the aligned sights) and be sure that you have a solid grip. The recoil of a Luger is different that that you'd feel on other pistols. It may be rocking up as it fires...

Marc

Robert,
Last week I sold a Luger that looks exactely like the one you are inquiring about. I sold it to a gun smith in south Louisiana. He told me he had it sold, but his customer was off shore for a week or so and would take delivery when he returned. You make mention of being off shore. Same Luger???
Mike

Was the person who bought your Luger in Lafayette? That is where the shop I bought this gun is located. Would be a heck of a coincidence, yes?

Sometimes if the price is really attractive, you buy first and ask questions later.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/u...l/100_3082.jpg
Right side of receiver

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/u...l/100_3083.jpg
Right side of barrel

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/u...l/100_3100.jpg

Under side of barrel, serial number, 'u' suffix and another number beneath.. looks like 882 to my eyes.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/u...l/100_3087.jpg


mark on top side of left toggle.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/u...l/100_3088.jpg
another view showing marks on receiver and barrel.

There are no other markings on this pistol, apart from the individually numbered parts. Nothing inside the grips or on the frame, no chamber date or rollmark on top of the toggle link.

Any information is greatly appreciated!

Nice one -congrats.

Hi Robert,

In the picture of the barrel serial number, you'd expect to see slightly lightened "halos" around the stamped serial number digits on an original finish pistol. Not sure if it's the lighting, but those don't appear to be present. Also, the toggle axle retaining pin would normally be in the white on an original finish pistol.

If this was Mike's pistol, he can tell you much more about it than I could from pictures...

The "8.82" is the bore gauge as measured between protruding lands, in mm. It is what you'd expect on a 9mm pistol. The Weimar proof marks are unusual, and quite interesting.

Congratulations on a very nice Luger.

Marc

It's not the same pistol. When I posted the above comments, I did not realize the serial number was readable on Robert's Luger. It is not the same serial as the one I sold.

Mike

After some research --I'm a noob, and I do not have the reference books*yet*--it looks like the receiver markings are from a Simson rework circa 1930 or so, along with a Waffenamt stamp. Is there any way to determine the manufacturer/date if no such stampings are on the frame? I ask because one of the cough-gurus-cough at the local gun shop said something about markings on the frame of guns made to circumvent Treaty of Versailles restrictions. Is that factual or just more gunstore ninja faux wisdom?

Nice looking handgun there.

Dave

There are no "secret" markings on any Luger frames to circumvent the Versailles treaty, to the best of my knowledge. The German "deception" only went as far as the manufacturing codes, which were merely meant to hide the manufacturing origin of the pistols. Although I can find no specific restriction on the number of Pistols the German Army could posses under the treaty, there were restrictions on who could manufacture pistols within the borders of Germany. The various Mauser codes, etc, were meant to hide the fact that pistol production in Germany had resumed outside of the authorized entities such as Simson Suhl. The Germans realized rather quickly that the league of nations had neither the will nor the stomach to rigidly enforce these provisions of the treaty.

There are "secret" date markings but only on the chambers of Lugers made in 1934 "K", 1935 "G", and some 1936 "S". They were used by the Nazis when they resumed full scale arms manufacturing on coming to power in 1933. By 1936 they no longer felt the need for the pretense, and started dating openly. Regards, Norm