BYF 42 2245k
 

Gentlemen, I am new to this forum but not to shooting and have been a member of the NRA for 40 years. I am very interested in acquiring shooting examples of classic firearms. I have an opportunity to acquire a "shooting grade" P08 which has matching numbers with the exception of smooth walnut grips and a magazine which has had the numbers removed. The mag has an alum. bottom and is pinned on the rear side adjacent to thumb knob.
The bottom piece is stamped "Mexico" instead of Germany. It is a BYF 42 ser#2245k. Based on the almost 100% bluing and not original grips it must of been refinnished. On the forward grip frame below the trigger guard it has 1/P1.2.6. On the front frame under the barrel it looks as if the original SN was peened over and a new one matching the other parts added below it. Is this a real 1942 p08 or a good copy. I could provide photos if needed.
Thanks, Rich Wright

You must provide clear photos of the entire gun from every angle and close ups of all the markings in order to get the best informed opinions. Your gun is very unlikely to be a copy. It simply has its own history of alterations, which only the photos will reveal.

Photos of BYF 42 2245k
 

Photos

Hi Rich, Your gun has been assembled from parts from different guns from different eras. It would take clearer photos than you have provided to properly identify these parts. While the top half is from a 42 byf (1942 Mauser) the frame is from a much earlier gun, possibly WW1. It should be marked P08 on the left frame, and it should have the distinctive Mauser bump. So, more photos please. Regards, Norm

Thanks
 

Where on left frame should the P08 be, near the take down latch or under the grip. Also, you mentioned the Mauser bump. Is that the bottom front of the frame.

The "PO8" should be on the left side flat of the frame just below the knurled finger grip of the toggle and the "Mauser Hump" would be at the very rear of each of the frame ears.

Thanks
 

I'll take more photos of the frame and post a little later.

8.9.11 photos
 

They are clear and can be magnified

Hi Rich, Thanks for those additional photos, unfortunately they don't quite show the area I'd like to examine. For your benefit, and for others that are confused about the Mauser "hump", here is a short primer.
The original P08's made by DWM and Erfurt in WW1 had frames that looked like the first photo, at the back. The P08's produced by Mauser and Krieghoff from 1934 on, were lengthened 1mm at the back, to prevent the rear toggle pin from drifting leftwards at full recoil and jamming the gun. This was necessary because of the hotter ammo in use at the time, see second photo. In 1937, Mauser, for reasons known only to themselves, started milling away the lower part of the frame rear, thus forming the "hump", third photo.
Back to your gun, Rich. I believe it has a DWM frame, renumbered to match the 1942 Mauser top half. Best regards, Norm

Thanks, no hump
 

Now I understand, here is the photo you wanted. What do the characters on the front grip strap indicate, 1/P1.2.6.

Rich, while Norm didn't say why he thinks your frame is one made by DWM, I agree with him. If it had been made by Erfurt, there would be a proof mark stamped on the front of the trigger guard below the serial number. Erfurt stamped just about every part with proof marks including the grip screws. DWM was much more conservative.

Many thanks to Norme and Doubs
 

This information clears up a lot of doubts and also means the pistol is still fine shooter.
Rich

I am curious as to what others think of the chamfers on the sides of the toggle...Do they look 'enhanced'???

They indicate the unit the weapon was assigned to... :)

(No, I don't know what unit that is...) :D

Steve, at ease..as you were!

:thumbsup:QUOTE=pitsword;199492]Steve, at ease..as you were![/QUOTE]

Hi Rich (richie301), Those grip strap markings look like Weimar era unit marks to me, but since that's outside my field, I can't help. We do have a couple of Weimar specialists on the forum who might chime in.
Hi Rich (postino), By coincidence the subject of byf toggle chamfers was discussed recently on the other forum. It seems that the change to the wide chamfer occurred towards the end of 1941. Regards, Norm

Hi Norme, the middle byf Luger it looks it is darker blue, is it the photo or they were made like this.

I have bought a byf-41 and although I have not recieved it yet on inspection I noticed that is a bit more darker than what I think it should be and I bought it as "original blueing."
I will post pictures as soon as I have it.
Alf.

Hi Alf, Some variation in the color of Mauser's salt blued (mid 1937 onwards) guns is common. It was either due to depletion of the chemical bath, temperature variation or both. Sometimes one sees plum colored parts also. Best regards, Norm

Thanks Norme, Nice set you got, they are beautifull. :thumbsup:
Thanks for sharing.
Alf.

A purely technical comment, but some could folks find legal issues with the frame being renumbered.
Just sayin'

Please show a clear photo of the marking on the bottom of the barrel. This is the import mark. Many imported guns were renumbered before importation by the seller (Perhaps east germany) in an attempt to get a better price by forced number matching... Show us the mark and we may be able to shed some light on the gun's import date.

Barrel photo
 

See if this will do.

So, the importer is Century Arms, Inc... Perhaps from the batch a few years ago?

Is it a VoPo RC with the s/n renumbering done there?

The magazine looks late, not period. Was there someone in Mexico making them a few years ago?

If this shoots well (and you should verify this before acquisition) it should satisfy your need for a shooter Luger.

Marc

Possible VoPo Rc
 

Thanks mark, I did a dogpile search on "VoPo Rc"
and there is a ton of info on the whole Russian capture/ East German maintained supply of Lugers,
P-38's and K-98's that came to the USA during the 90's. Also, info on their altered serial number matching plan to enhance sale prices. As you pointed out, some of articles say they shoot very well because they were maintained by the East German armorers.

Rich