GunsAmerica Hates Us
 

Lifted this off The PP/PPk collectors forum. This stemmed from an inquiry to get help from the owner of GunsAmerica and his stance on German WW2 weapons.


I guess the guns made them do it. I just thought it was evil people.


Also note that Colts killed bad guys...[only]


Strange illogical thoughts?..but bigots and logic have little to do with each other.


=+=+=+=+=+=+


"We were prefer you keep these guns off the site, and we would even more prefer you bury them. I also stand behind (and feel free to post this to all your user groups) that anyone who wants to own one of these (as opposed to being forced to handle it in the course of business) is a NUT and should seek professional help.


Even if GunsAmerica wasn't owned by orthodox Jews who had millions of relatives helplessly slaughtered by these guns we would discourage their posting on the site.


It's one thing to own an old Colt that killed bad guys. Even though the implement was used to take a life it was for overall good.


You have to be really sick to want to own something even touched by a nazi (may their names be blotted out). Never mind something that almost for certain took innocent lives.


There weren't any warehoused, unused guns. If you think owning it is harmless history, fine. It's your soul.


But though we can't prevent you from listing them, we'd prefer you take your business elsewhere, and from the sale, we prefer you'd keep your GA fee and just remove the gun sold by you. -


Shlomo"

Re: GunsAmerica Hates Us
 

Shadow, would you kindly post the URL of this message, I have friends that would love to see this. Thanks. Sieg Heil. LOL.

Re: GunsAmerica Hates Us
 

if this is your opinion, why you write to this FORUM?.Weapons don't kill,only people do.

Don't like those Nazi guys either
 

I understand the gentlemens feelings from GunAmerica, but there is a difference in glorification and liking a historical piece of firearm.


Of course, maybe 1/2 the Lugers made were before nazism took over.


Does his disliking include P38's, PPK's, K98's etc.,? And that adds up to a lot of guns and a lot of buisness, because if I had a buisness and decided not to sell my above guns on it, why would I sell any?


Ed

Re: Don't like those Nazi guys either
 

Dear All - friend Shlomo seems to have overlooked that the principal rifle in the war that followed immediately on the declaration of an independent Israel was the Gew98K , many of which bore the signs of having been manufactured in Nazi Germany - I don't recall ever speaking to a soldier from those difficult times who would rather have put it down than pick it up and use it. 'Forged in fire' the motto of the Israeli Armed Forces, and the first army since Simon bar Kosibar armed with German weapons, forged in the fire of the second world war.

Shalom


Terry Foley

URL
 

http://home.thezone.net/~k98k/k98kframe.html

Re: Don't like those Nazi guys either
 

In a like vein, the Bf-109 and Fw-190 were the backbone of the Israeli Air Force for many years.

Re: Don't like those Nazi guys either
 

Third Reich Lugers by Jan Still, page 238 states "Documentation from Israel indicates that this Luger was imported by the "Electric Company of Israel" during the late 1930's. It is likely left over from an undelivered portion of the portion of the Stoeger contract {STOEGER AMERICAN EAGLE} and routed to Israel." I find this Luger highly interesting considering all the evil attachements some have for Lugers and the previous statements in this thread. In my view the Luger was a tool and a darn amazing one, especially considering the engineering marvel it was in early 1900 when it was conceived. All the AXIS soldiers could have used a 1911 45 to do the same bad stuff if they had them, but it doesnt make the weapon evil IMO. ~Thor~

Re: Don't like those Nazi guys either
 

There is a misconception of the Army of Germany of the great war of WWII. All of these soldiers were not "Nazi's" just as all of the members of the armed forces of the US are not Democrats nor Republicans. The Nazi Party, the NSDAP, (Nationional Socilaistiche Democratiche Arbiter Partei) or something like that, was a political party. The hard core party members are the one's that committed the atrocites of the war, not all of the soldiers were involved in this but apparently all of them get blamed for them. Every German soldier that carried a Luger did not necessarily use it to kill innocent civilians, but they are saddled with that belief. If you were a soldier and you were in a situation that may have required you to use a side arm to protect your life I think that you would do so, does this make you a 'nazi' I don't think so. War is a nasty business at best and things happen that many nations are not proud of, remember the Calley trial of Vietnam? A soldier gone awry, it happens in the heat of battle, if you haven't been there, done that, then it is very hard to understand what happens to the normal thought processes when the lead is flying. Don't commit all Lugers to the Nazi mentality, many of them were never fired in anger.

Re: Don't like those Nazi guys either
 

Herb, you and I agree! ~Thor~

Luger Forum Decorum...
 

In the General Information section of the Luger Forum, DOK's has written a strong statement policy in the "Foum Decorum" under the topic of "Forbidden Topics & Posting" and the issue of the luger and its ties to the Nazi party.


Someone might want to consider sending a copy of this statement to the Owners at GunsAmerica. This would let the folks at GunsAmerica know who the Luger Forum folks are...


Banning lugers seems as inconsistent to me as banning folks driving BMW cars just because these cars are built by the folks that used to build German plans used in the War more than 50 years ago.

A bit of history
 

People need to remember that George Luger designed the gun before WWI. Durring that war, the world Jewish council (not its correct name) almost declared for Germany because the Germans were fighting the Russian empire which conducted regular pogroms against the Jews in its territory. History is a complicated tangle of changing aliances and enemies

Re: A bit of history
 

Not to mention that during the Great War I have remembered reading in some histories that there were Jewish men who fought for the Kaiser. I guess one could say that it has a bad association with the Nazi Germans but in the end, a gun is just a gun (to badly paraphrase Freud).

Re: A bit of history
 

Can't prove it but I have heard that the Italian Air Force had airplanes with engines on the front and rear so that they could change directions depending upon who was winning at any particular time. LOL, No offence intended to our Italian members, maybe some sould verify this.

Re: Luger Forum Decorum...
 

Wm. "Pete" raises and interesting point... it's a good job the GA guys don't allow other items to be listed on their site... the poor Volkswagen would never sell... designed under Hitler's direct supervision... we should never have loved that little car, we should have scorned it, and banned its use everywhere, horrible symbol of Nazi arrogance... Hmmmm I seem to recall a a few Jews that owned Volkswagens, I guess they didn't know about them...

Re: A bit of history-Shadow
 

The link I clicked on took me to the main web site, but not to the message. Any closer link would be appreciated.

TO HERB
 

GO TO THAT SPOT


CLICK ON FORUM


GO DOWN TO GUNSAMERICA/CLICK ON IT

Re: A bit of history
 

This was a German fighter plane, with at least one still around.

Re: A bit of history [ So Soon Forgotten ]
 

How soon are the facts forgotten in the face of "Blatent Propaganda".

Do We Not Remember that the only Legal producer of the Luger pistol was SIMPSON & Co., ( Reputed to be a Jewish Company ), From 1918 thru 1932.

Were the SIMPSON & Co. Officers and Workers Nazi's?(Heil No).

ViggoG

Re: GunsAmerica Hates Us
 

Who cares what GunsAmerica thinks? It is fairly hypocritical for anyone who profits by selling firearms to condemn anyone who collects them. One weirdo at one internet gun site doesn't warrant too much concern. Don't do business with GunsAmerica, don't let anyone you know do business with them and email them a note to explain your feelings and actions. I think they will get the drift.

We have had the nazi/collector controversy here before and that is why we have language in our 'Forum Decorum' for dealing with this exact topic. I think that before it goes too far we will probably see it disappear. Threads like this have a life of their own and it isn't about Lugers or freedom of speech.

Re: GunsAmerica Hates Us
 

I personally could care less if a gun that I own had been used against somebody else. They are just pieces of metal, plastic, and wood. It is equivalent to blaming a Chevy or Ford for killing somebody in a accident when the driver was drunk or reckless.

Re: A bit of history-Shadow
 

Herb,


OK, here is the link that will take you to the message on GA.


Marvin



GA Message

This thread (GunsAmerica Hates Us)...
 

has pretty much run its course... The internet is a fascinating arena, where we get to see and hear people and opinions we would otherwise not be exposed to.


Any idiot can jump up and proclaim "God Is Dead, Long Live Bill Gates" or some other equally pathetic drivel, and before you know it, a thousand people are on their feet yelling and screaming their own protests.


Suffice it to say we live in a free society (Thank God - who's not really dead) and we can express our views however unpopular without fear of death or dismemberment. At some point however, the issues become more academic than practical.


I think we all here at the Luger Forum have a good grip on reality, and realise that a Luger has no personality (despite how we may "talk" to it when it jams ), nor has it any political affiliations, and those who feel so, such as our "friend" on GunsAmerica do not share our values, and will never see our way. The stance you take with GunsAmerica is a personal choice, "it takes all kinds to make a world", and YES even "jerks", whom I think God added to the mix just to make it interesting.


Now, let's get back to talking about Lugers.


Dok

Re: GunsAmerica Hates Us,,re;My 2 cents
 

If the people behind GunsAmerica don't like nazi guns on their web site, then don't allow them to be posted. Put a notice up stating NO nazi guns allowed to be posted. Its that simple! Whats the fuss?

Ebay doesn't want nazi stuff on their site, has a notice posted, and will pull the item if found. So why does Guns America even have a column for these type of guns to be listed?

I must be missing something here. Forget about crying what gun killed who, thats BS. To me if you don't like something you do away with it. Especially if you are the one running the show.

So like I said, if GunsAmerica doesn't want to see these types of guns posted on their web site then don't allow them in the first place. Problem solved! My 11 year old kid can make this determination...


Like Doc said, back to Lugers

Bob

Re: URL-Shadow
 

I'm doing something wrong, I just can't find the letter, or GA for that matter.

Re: TO SHADOW
 

DUH!! I finally found it, sure is an interesting discussion going on there about the subject. GA has sure lost some potential customers.