Online auction help!! Help!! Help!!
 

:order:A few weeks back I was participting in an online auction that featured a variety of items. One of the items was listed as "LUGER DRUM MAGAZINE". Only one picture was provided and that was a picture of the side of the magazine where there is no lever etc. The picture that was provided did show what looked like a stick eagle proof which caused some doubt but I said it might be an Erfurt repair proof or such. I purchased the magazine for $525.00. I had planned to bid much higher, but when the bidding stopped at $525.00 I thought I had bought something that would make a nice profit. When it arrived, the first thing I noticed was an absence of hardware on the side of the magazine (this was not provided in the auction photograh). I tried to insert the magazine in a Luger, but it goes in only about 2-3 inches and stops.
I immediately called the auction and spoke to the owner. He said everything is sold AS-IS and it was my responsibility to look at the item and deceide for myself what it was. I have spoken to him several times since. I pointed out that it his responsibility to at lease have the title correct. I told him the title should have read "MOVIE PROP or a REPRODUCTION." All he has offered is to try to sell it for me. Does anyone know what rights I might have?

Thanks,
Mike

Mike, How did you pay and who was the seller?

Mike, I would see what their rules are, usually that can be used against them.

You can always tell them that it is fraud to sell as an original when its a toy....


Ed

I almost always insist on paying with PayPal or a credit card. That's the only way to protect yourself. If you have a beef PP or your CC company will do something about it.

Mike, post a link to the auction item so we can see EXACTY how it was described and research the auction rules.

Regards,
Doug

Online auction help
 

Many thanks for the replies. Here is a link to the auction:https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDeta...00874#topoflot

I'm sorry Mike, I don't think you have much recourse. They don't use the word "original" and, I hate to say this, you should have known that a Nazi eagle does not belong on an Imperial drum. Regards, Norm

Mike, The site is really blanc when I pull it up. One photo with little or no description. Was there more at one time? It looks like a weird site to me..I have never been there before. So unless there was no other information I am at a loss how to help from the link you gave.
One photo? That is a huge red flag for me. Any site offering one photo and no way to get more would make me go somewhere else.
Drums are something I happen to know something about. Even if it were something of a bargain..I would want MANY photo's to authenticate one. This may very well serve as a lesson for others if nothing else.
I would still file a complaint with my method of payment. If you paid with anything but PP or a CC you seem to be out of luck unless there is further information from the site than I am able to see.

Mike,
Whether a a reproduction or an original, it should still function. A "Luger Snail Drum Magazine" should fit into a luger, and deliver ammuntition to the pistol otherwise it should have been offered as a "Looks Like a Luger Snail Drum. but really Isn't." Moreover, trumpeting the "fact" that it has a "Nazi Eagle" furthers the representation that it is a genuine, functional, Luger Snail Drum Magazine.

If it is a movie prop or a non functional reproduction I think that you have been defrauded, but what to do?

If it was me, I would tell the auction house that if you are not given a full refund you will file a complaint with the Nebraska State Atorney General's Consumer Fraud's Bureau. I would also research whether an agency of the State registers or regulates the business and tell the representative that you will follow up with a complaint to that agency as well. I would expect law enforcement agencies to view this as a "business dispute" but there is no reason not to tell the auction house that you will make a fraud complaint with the appropriate law enforcement agency as well.

All of this is premised on the assumption that the magazine is a non functional model or prop rather than a reproduction of a genuine magazine which is intended to funtion in a luger.

Good Luck.

Regards,
Doug

Jerry,
I paid by Visa Credit Card. I did contact their "help" dept. I was informed that they would intervenve only after I had exhausted all my efforts. I was to send them copies of all correspondence etc; not what I was led to believe.

Here is a link that might furnish the information you are looking for: https://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=38146

Doug,
Thanks for input. There is ABSOLUTELY no way this "thing" can function. As I said earlier, I tried to insert it in several of my Lugers. It goes in only two or three inches and then stops. Even if it went in and seated, the lever is missing. With the so called Nazi proof, the letters"MGC" are stamped on the drum. I understand this stands for "Model Gun Company". I informend the owner of all of this to no avail.
BTW: his business is located in Illinois.

Mike
Mike

If you have a lawyer or a lawyer friend I would have them send a formal letter with a strong threat of further action. I have found that a letter from a lawyer works better than a private party letter, Well worth a shot anyway. Bill

Proxibid
Terms and Conditions


http://www.proxibid.com/asp/TermsAndConditions.asp


Many Sellers have their own Web sites, and their own terms and conditions, which may or may not contain the same level of protection as Proxibid's Terms and Conditions. You should review the Terms and Conditions of each Seller before registering to participate in an auction.

Proxibid has no affiliation with or control over the Sellers or over their operation of the actual auctions. Proxibid facilitates the connection between the Seller and you the Bidder. Proxibid is not responsible for the content of the Sellers' postings. Proxibid does not review or evaluate the quality or origin of the items auctioned or verify the claims made by each Seller regarding its items.

Proxibid does not guarantee the accuracy of any of the postings or content on the Web site. No user has a claim against Proxibid for relying on these postings or content.

A lawyer has written some impressive disclaimers for Proxibid.

It appears you need to go to the seller's site and review his terms and conditions.

Do you have a link to it?

Read further..here is something that applies to both buyer AND seller. Fraud/Deception. You may not engage in fraudulent, deceptive or intentionally disruptive or malicious activity of any kind.

PAYMENT, COLLECTION, AND DISPUTE RESOLUTION

If any dispute arises between you and a Seller regarding an item sold or the manner in which an auction was conducted, you agree to use good faith efforts to resolve the dispute utilizing the Seller's dispute resolution procedures (if any). If you and the Seller are unable to resolve the dispute through such good faith efforts, either you or the Seller may request Proxibid's assistance in resolving the dispute by submitting a "Dispute" form or "Request for Review" form, pursuant to the terms of Proxibid's Dispute Resolution Policy, a copy of which can be accessed by contacting Proxibid Accounts Receivable at acctsrec@proxibid.com. Such request must be submitted within ten (10) days following the earlier of: (i) the date of the dispute, or (ii) the date upon which your good faith efforts to resolve the dispute utilizing Seller's dispute resolution procedure (if any) failed. Proxibid may in its discretion agree to mediate or otherwise assist in the resolution of the dispute, and, if Proxibid so agrees, you and Seller shall each cooperate in good faith in the mediation process toward a resolution agreeable to both parties, all in accordance with the terms of our Dispute Resolution Policy.
Proxibid reserves the right to adjust a Bidder's payment rating in accordance with the Bidder's payment history.

You are providing more details now than you did on the PM to me.

Since you paid by credit card you should be aware that you have a limited time to protest the charge to the credit card company. Usually it is 60 days according to my recolelction. And the protest has to be in "writing" to the credit card company. A telephone call or email does not cut the mustard.

You should check the specific rules of your credit card company with respect to the above.

I think all of the procedure is based on a federal law - but I do not know the specific reference. In any event, the procedure is very exact and the 'i's have to be dotted and the 't's have to be crossed, or you are out of luck.


Being the kind, congenial person that I am, I would be doing all those things I mentioned in my earlier repsonse to you, what Bill Lyon said above, what Doug said, and the credit card protest. I would also do the proxibid thing, but I have a feeling that procedure may not accomplish much since proxibid has left themselves too many holes.

I would do all of the things at the same time.

I would also get written expert opinions on the drum to send to the various places. Opinions of experts will carry more weight than what you say.

IF what the CC Co. told you is correct, you must exhaust all other avenues you must enter into the dispute resolution provided by Proxibid.

What Charlie says is true..you must didpute the CC payment in WRITING. NEVER by telephone.

If it were me..I would immediately declare FRAUD to my CC Co. This is different than just a simple dispute. Alert them in writing and they may take your money from the seller untill he can prove otherwise.

No matter what you will have to go to work to get your money back. Like pigs that have escaped from your pen you will have to chase your dollars!

You're right, and the good news is that it's not totally worthless. It's probably not worth what you paid, but still worth more than you would think. Here's another one that's not near as nice as yours:
http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetai...35&lid=7227660
http://spectrum.gregmartinauctions.c...px?LotID=33228

I am always sceptical of auctions with only 1 pic. either they have something to hide or they are lazy. If they do not supply more pics if asked then I would move on.

The problem with these MGC replica drums is that they will not work in a standard Luger. They have no "guts", no winder and only a spring, which allows 5-6 rounds to be inserted into the stack area of the magazine. They were for display in the company's replica Artillery rig. While a bit rare today they are worth mowhere near $500+

The picture shows that the insert tube has the follower just like a normal magazine. This is a very bad sign for a drum magazine. I have been burnt by being over optimistic and not looking close enough at the pictures. Go for a refund but I do not think it will happen.

jerry

Here's more helpful hindsight on Model Gun Corporation
http://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/...un-corporation
Just replied to another post, wondering if their P-08 mags might fit/work...

Mike,

I am sorry you didn't get what you expected, but as mentioned previously, the visible magazine button on the side of the magazine facing the viewer is a dead giveaway that his is not a real Luger magazine. I remember these magazines being sold in the 1960's and 70's at gun shows with Replica Non-Guns. They would fit and made a great display unless you got close. They definitely do not fit a real Luger pistol. I feel the one line description is totally inadequate... and misleading. Good luck and getting your money back through VISA.

MGC drum
 

Couple of pics of one I bought back in the 80's from Collector's Armory in the D.C. area. While no guts, it does hold a number of rounds and fits my guns well. You can see, perhaps, the MGC stamp and 'proff' marks. I also have a dummy Thompson drum I bought there too.

Guys,
Here is an update to the story. After compiling an extensive file which included a letter from a gunsmith stating that item was a fake, and sending it all to my credit card company, I was informed that I would be given credit for the entire transaction including shipping. The seller has until July 31st. to protest or show that their decision was in error. But so far so good.

Mike

Hi Mike. Followed this up from a link on the 'other' Luger forum. I'll offer you $150 for the dud if you get your money back. I only need it to fit a deactivated Luger.

Mike..Good news! Yes..the seller has the responsibility to respond to the CC Co. to explain why their sale was not fraudulant. Good luck, let us know what happens!