instant collection
 

I found this collection today http://www.bronzecannons.net/guncollection.html
How in the world would something like this work? For the sake of enlightenment, what would be a ballpark for an offer they might consider?
David

As an efficient way of mulcting bargain hunters.

Hi David, There are plenty of crooks in this country, you don't need to go to Argentina to get screwed (unless you're Gov. Mark Sanford). Regards, Norm

Don't know if they are "crooks" or not, but there are some world class guns there. I don't have the funds or the connections to buy any of them but if I did I would seriously be looking for a way to acquire some choice guns.

Don't see what makes it stand out as some sort of rip-off...it just looks an amazing collection of some wonderful guns. Not that I have anywhere near the resources to buy 32 lugers at one time :eek: , but I'm wondering...if anyone did, would they have to be import stamped to be owned here?

and thanks, David...I thought I had a decent all-round knowledge of firearms....but....an Adler????? wow.....new one on me!

Interesting to see that the rest of the site refers to shipwreck research.

One of the worst scammers from Poland used many variations of a ''shipwreck research" email address. I would not hand out a single penny without holding the gun in question firmly in my hands, while moving towards the exit :)

Wants to sell the whole collection? To who? Bill Gates? Even each segment would be a stretch for all but the extremely wealthy.

Gerben might have a good point..I would want mucho background information and an airline ticket to Argentina for starters.

Point very well taken Gerben. What a shame if this is indeed another scam by the "Poland shipwreck" scoundrel.

Of course I'm not saying that it is, but I found it a striking coincidence.

The old scammer 'Pavel Nowak' is currently offering rare militaria items for sale under the user name 'Apollo13' or variations of that as well. We spotted him offering a German pinhelm for sale on a Dutch sales site under that name.

Hmmm.
I would think the beat way to dispose of this collection would be to import them to a major auction house here in the USA. Like RIA or Greg Martin. I am sure they could handle the import paperwork.
Then any buyers would know that folks known to the collector community would have inspected each gun and verified condition.
The seller would get top dollar that way and not have any problems collecting the proceeds.
Just my .02

Bob

One thing that lends towards it being a legit offering is that the majority of these pictures of the guns were taken with the same background, same lighting...not random images collected from the net.

Anyhow, for anyone sincerely interested who had money to burn, a round trip plane ticket to Argentina would be the cheapest part of the transaction!

Several years ago, i was approached and I think other members about a guy who had a collection for sale from Argentina. I have no idea if it is true or not, it just seemed too much like a scam.

There are folks who go to Argentina for biz, would be interesting if they could 'visit' the collection.

I know a fellow collector who started his collection from a tip from me. I had received a PM to me on the forum from a guy in Israel. Would only sell the entire collection, I could not afford it, but my friend eventually worked a deal with him and bought it, went through the importation to europe and still has the collection.

To the USA would require complete importation. A piece or two a year can be acquired through much paperwork without the item being import marked.


Ed

From the gun stores I have mentioned in Buenos Aires and the two personal collections I have observed I don't find the quality or the quantity of this collection at all unusual for Argentina.

I noticed that the asking price for the entire collection of 700+ guns was ~$340k. One could calculate a reasonable offer for this on roughly a per-unit basis. Average price per gun would be less than $500. $20-30k for the 30-some Lugers might just take it? I have some dough to invest, not burn, and payback could indeed be stretched over years for this purpose. If it's over the 20k mark by much, I'd need a partner. Or maybe we could scrape together a consortium of interested collectors on a share basis. The forum could pitch in to establish values of the individual pieces, all could make offers, and proceeds could be divided according to the shares each contributor held, after expenses and a healthy contribution to the forum.
We need a researcher to confirm the offering and clear title to it. We need sound, definitive advice as to the best approach for importing.
The page also said that arrangements could be made to store the guns in Argentina, and mentioned the Argentinian BATF equivalent. This could make the importations easier on a piecemeal basis, depending on what the charges would be from whomever for providing the storage.
This seems too good to be true in a few ways, but as has been pointed out that there is nothing specific so far to condemn this situation, suspicions aside. Maybe we can all ferret out the facts together.
I emailed them the other day, must check for a response, about whether they'd established an asking-price for the Lugers. Maybe I can find a phone contact...I'll report back if I can find out any more.

Found out so far:

Domain name: bronzecannons.net

Registrant Contact:
Jerseydawgs
Anthony Wells ()

Fax:
200 N. El Camino Real
Space# 148
Oceanside, 92054
US

Administrative Contact:
Jerseydawgs
Anthony Wells (tonywells82@hotmail.com)
+63.9273451812
Fax: none
200 N. El Camino Real
Space# 148
Oceanside, 92054
US

Technical Contact:
Jerseydawgs
Anthony Wells (tonywells82@hotmail.com)
+63.9273451812
Fax: none
200 N. El Camino Real
Space# 148
Oceanside, 92054
US

Status: Locked

Name Servers:
ns1.eastwesthub.com
ns2.eastwesthub.com

Creation date: 15 Aug 2004 02:58:00
Expiration date: 15 Aug 2011 02:58:00



In response to my email mentioned above, I received:

Hello,

Please make your offer for the Luger collection so I can see if Carlos will
accept it or not.

Sincerely,
Tony


Contact phone for domain is in the Philippines, registration address Riverside, Ca.

I could email him back immediately and play it straight, but will wait for input from forum. Who's thinkin' what about this?

Here is a specific fact. If this were a legitimate offering, the "owner" could have disposed of it with a single phone call to Rock Island Auction, James D. Julia, or Hermann Historica. In either one of these venues this "collection" would have grossed over a million dollars, preempting the need to solicit bids online. "If it seems to be too good to be true, it is."

Hi David, I've been in the import/export business for over 50 years. Although I seldom agree with my dear friend Michael, he's 100% right on this one. Regards, Norm

I thought this thread was long deceased, however, I found this in my inbox today:

Attached were over 2 dozen Excel spreadsheets, containing no particular changes. Yup, the Adler is still available!

MY reply:

It's been well over a year since I heard from this guy. I think he's digging through his correspondence to dredge up some hope for his plan. Perhaps the bronze cannon biz has slowed down!

"contact phone for domain is in the Philippines, registration address Riverside CA." RED FLAG!

Peter

Well, I expect it will be a big job for the importer to get out his metal stamp and hammer and bang the import information on all of these firearms. Of course, doing so will knock at least 25% off the value of the collection.

Yes...I know...red flags galore, and ringing bells. I'm continuing in order to ascertain their validity or lack thereof. If it's anything like their description, and nobody's in a hurry, it may be that we can get something going. If it is revealed to be smoke and mirrors, I'll bait them until I get tired of it. As far as anyone's being able to extract a hefty sum from me, even without flim-flam, well, let's just say I'm in a very safe position now.

Tony Wells has forwarded contact info to me for one Ricardo Birsa, who is the Argentinian firearms exporter. Here's his company's contact info, and the references he supplied:

Does anyone recognize anyone on this list? Would anybody able to visit, at least to see if this is a drop-box farm or a working business address, as Ricardo says? I'll chip away and dig some more. The only thing that came up on a Googling was his listings on eBay and a copy of a bill of lading for a cannon shipped/imported thru the port of Newark.

David,
He references FGS as a buyer. They do move a lot of WW2 pistols and have a good reputation. Check with them.

Perhaps he missed a spell check or did he really move to Arghentina. From 68 years of battered experience, "if it sounds too good to be true, it is".

Hope you get that GI Tgun mag. Let us know if it works. Best to you, Vince

I'll be in Buenos Aires the week of October 8, but not sure what kind of time I'll have. I can certainly make local inquiries...

I did recognize FGS in the list. It's the first one to contact, I agree.

We're checking the duck out--how it walks, quacks, and otherwise behaves. As soon as it f@rts, then we'll know!

I bought two at the Rochester gun show this weekend. I gladly paid $30 apiece, in excellent condition, vintage/pre-ban. They're only $20 online, but those, I couldn't hold in my hand to check condition. At the moment, I have them marked and ready for the die grinder to extend the holes. My mag catch may be round, but the current carbine design yields around 1/8" difference in height of the lower frame. Somebody on the Gunboard said it was to prevent installation of original full-auto parts in that space. I think these new mags show much promise; I'll let you know how they feed after I get them to click in snug.

Great! That's what I'm talkin' about! Doug, imuy bien! I'm hoping we can wind up with a puzzle piece in place, if you could do that. If there's enough time, maybe you can get a peek at this alleged collection.

D.P.

It will be telling what kind of response you get when you ask if somone can look it over in October.

David,

Glad to hear that you were able to locate a couple of nice original TSG mags at your local gunshow. They are made very well, and hopefully they will solve your problem. Keep us informed.