Borchardt - Luger Predecessor
 

I just saw a borchard for sale on Gunbroker.com and the seller said it was the predecessor to the luger and was very rare. I was wondering if anyone had any idea how many borchards were still in existance and what was a reasonable value given a 70% condition. Should I add this piece, if I can afford, to my collection. Thanks, Mike

Welcome, Mike.

Borchardts are the predecessor to the Luger prior to 1900. Georg Luger worked with Borchardt and together they perfected the design. The first lugers were originally called the "Borchardt-Luger System".

Borchardts are pretty rare. A stock, holster, accessories and case completes the set, but without them they are still very valuable.

The forum has rules I think on commenting on auctions so as Forest Gump would say "That's all I have to say about that".

Clark

They sure are pretty
 

Even without the stock!

The last Borchardt I saw on GB went for $9000 about a year & a half ago... :(

Yeah, it's the Whoopie Goldburg of Luger collecting........ :-)

Harry

No, neither this, nor Jan's forum objects to current auctions. Main gunboards does not approve, but we have never minded.

Mike, read about the Borchardt here, there are plenty of threads about them, and secondly, buy some luger books, most of them cover the borchardt, some in detail some not. In that same vein, read about good books and not so good books.

Ed

Has anyone ever shot one of these?:evilgrin:

Yes! It is really a sweet shooting gun.

Is there any idea how many still survive?? Were there different varieties?

The gun on Gunbroker is a decent example. The spring plates at the rear are replacements and not a good copy. The magazine is #1344, so mismatched…but still an original magazine. In the current economy I would guess that the value of this Borchardt is in the $7000-$9000 range. The spring plates have been correctly reproduced but I don’t know a source.

Ron, any hint how to see if the spring plates are a copy?
Alf.

Alf,
An original spring plate is fire blued spring steel. It is attached to the gun by a "T" shaped stud that is rivited to the plate. There is a "dimple" on the bottom end of the plate that engages the detents on the frame for the open and closed postition of the plate.

The Gunbroker Borchardt has a plate that is fabricated from flat stock (not spring steel) with a hex-head attaching fixture. The frame detents have been removed.

Ron, I have a good pic of you shooting it somewhere. John

Yes, that was a once in a lifetime experience!

How was the accuracy+

David Eash brought this fine pistol and was kind enough to let around 20 of us fire it. David Borjes was our ammunition expert and provided around 3 rounds each. Ellie, my Wife fired 5 but she deserved it for putting up with a hoard of gun guys.

Like Ron says..a once in a lifetime experience. Not very many fellows alive on Planet Earth can say they have ever shot a Borchardt!

The accuracy was perfect. David immediately brought rounds to bear in the black and as I remember Ron was in there too. It was unfortunate that we didn't get a few rounds off without the stock but we only had so many..

Thanks to David Eash and Dave Borjes for putting that together!

Three shots at 25 yards. The second shot went a little high because I was so excited about hitting with the first! I settled down for the third shot.:thumbup:

Thanks for sharing that experience guys... and with photos yet! I finally met David at Tom Armstrong's funeral... I was introduced by by our long time mutual friend George Anderson.

Well!!!

This is interesting...I may be guilty of reading between the lines here, but to me it appears that this was a scam...

This item has been Sold!

This auction has ended but the item has been relisted.
Click here to view the new listing: Item # 225507806

Borchardt C93 - 7.65x25mm

Current Bid $10,001.00 Reserve Met! Started at $5,000.00
Quantity 1 # of bids 20 Bid History
Time left Listing has Ended
15 minute rule
Start 4/2/2011 10:17:00 PM ET (This is a 14 day auction)
Ends On or After 4/16/2011 10:51:01 PM ET

...It's been sold but it's relisted???...:confused:

...From the relist...

This auction has ended

Borchardt C93 - 7.65x25mm


Current Bid $0.00 Reserve Not Met Started at $5,000.00
Quantity 1 # of bids 0 Bid History
Time left Listing has Ended
15 minute rule Location FORT COLLINS, CO 80525
Start 4/16/2011 10:54:47 PM ET (This is a 14 day auction)
Ends On or After 4/17/2011 2:04:30 PM ET (GunBroker.com Official Time)


After which, GB has inserted the following disclaimer -

This auction has ended

This is a Reserve Price auction in which the reserve price was not met. Because the Reserve Price was not met, no transaction exists between the seller and the high bidder and buying or selling this item is a violation of our site's User Agreement. Auction services such as feedback, messaging, problem resolution assistance, fraud claims, and Buyer's Protection are not available for this item. Auction services are available only for items listed, bought and sold in compliance with the terms of our User Agreement.


At first I thought the buyer had reneged on the sale...But from the GB disclaimer, I think the seller either did not have the gun...or he tried to relist it for a higher price...

Whatcha all think??? :p

The reserve price was not met, so there is no deal. Unless further information comes to light, neither buyer nor seller reneged on anything. The minimum price the seller wanted for the gun was not reached by the highest bidder, so there is no sale.
No mystery here.

Doug - If you read the paragraph above, or go to the actual auction, you'll note it says "Current Bid $10,001.00 Reserve Met!"... :rolleyes:

Well, you see....further information came to light!! I missed that a reserve had been met in your original post.
Something then does seem odd.

You know, I just paid ~$500 for two pair of eyeglasses this last Summer...A lot of money, but they do seem to work... ;)

Check out both Start & End dates, too...He re-listed the Reserve Met/Sold handgun *before* the end of the first auction...

Lemme add this seller to my Scheiße List... :rolleyes:

I paid less for my first wife!!

It just may have been that the seller signed up for the gun to be automatically re-listed when he/she originally listed it and then GunBroker did not check to see if it had been sold before they automatically re-listed it.

Mike, Since it was established on the other forum that you were the seller, or someone living at your address, it would save time if you stop horsing around. If you want forum help, you should level with us. Norm

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=26446

(For those interested...)

SO, if Mike had such a good year in the market, why is he selling instead of buying????

A poster named "Mike Cotter" also posted a comment on the Forgotten Weapons/Borchardt page -

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/lore...tomatic-pistol