how to post
 

I'm new to this forum. How do I start a new post form my User CP? I have a ton of questions about a luger that I just received from my father. Thank you very much.

If I'm understanding you I'd say that you jut log in, select the apporopriate section and select "new topic" and post away. And you can save one step by posting lots of good clear pictures the first time...
Welcome aboard.
dju

I moved your posting to this area.

As said above, include pictures and a good description and we'll help as much as we can.


ed

Thanks boys
 

I just posted this a second ago.
Hi folks! This is my first post. I'm not totally sure I'm doing this correctly. I just got my first Luger from my father. He was in the Battle of the Bulge. Still doing well at 85. He collected a few guns while he was there but was only able to bring back a few. The one he recently gave me he picked out of creek! It's a DWM with the exact proof markings shown on the forums proof marking #1. It has the B U & G with crowns stamp and the number172,28 on the barrel with the number 128 stamped right below. All the parts are stamped consistantly with the number 28. The only thing apparently missing is the firing pin. It's in decent shape but not "excellent". It has the DWM stamp on the top but no "country" stamp up front. The "witness" mark is clean and straight. He always thought it was from WWII but it's turning out to be much older. I have not taken photos yet but will if anyone is interested in checking it out. I'd like to get a firing pin for it but I don't want to fire it. I'd also like to get an inexpensive holster to protect it. It's been in an old Dutch Masters cigar box for a very long time. Any suggestions or questions would be appreciated, Thanks

Doug, welcome to the forum.

Yes, pictures are a must and/or the serial number. It may be sn 128, if so, that is a very low serial number.

Does it have a grip safety, i.e. the grip has a safety that you push in as you hold the gun in your hand?

And if a 1900, 1906 or 1908 'model' depends on the type of firing pin...

PS: I collect stories like this, have vol II at the printers as i write, if interested, I'd like to add it and any other items to vol III / I give full credit to the original "author" for each story.


Ed

Thanks boys
 

Yes, it has a grip safety and a side lever safety. If the serial number is the one right below the 172,28 then that's what I have; 128. The 128 also shows up on the stock, up in front of the trigger, right below where the barrel screws in. I will take some photos later today for you to look at. My dad fire a mortar in the Bulge. He was decorated for getting guys out of there before they were completely surrounded. Unfortunately for us but fortunately for him, he has blocked out a lot of what happened. He saw a lot of bad stuff. He went back to Europe for the 50th anniversery of the Bulge. He also has a very interesting diary of those first few days. Photos will be coming soon. Thank you so much for your interest.

duke, holsters are for show, but not for gun storage..
 

we have some true experts on this board....don't do anything to your luger until you get their guidance.....welcome......tom

I don't plan on it. I've been watching the antique road show for years and that advice has sunk in. I will take photos tonight and post them tomorrow. I look forward to all suggestions, remarks, etc.. Until then, thank you.

Luger 1900-1908 ?
 

I will send two photos at a time because they are high res.

Luger 1900-1908 ?
 

next two

Luger 1900-1908 ?
 

next two
These two show the barrel and how it's pitted from what must be rust. My Dad has never done any restoration on this since he found it . He figures that he took it apart to see what was wrong with it (no firing pin) after he found it in the creek in Belgium, and cleaned the rust and dirt off with the same oil and rag that he used on his army issued 45 and rifle. He never used and steel brushes or wool on it. Inside the barrel is fairly clean with no pits. I think it could actually fire with a firing pin. I don't have any special desire to fire it and perhaps damage something, or myself!

Can we get a look at the Luger overall, and also any marks on the left, right and top of the receiver?

Marc

Luger 1900-1908 ?
 

I'll try three.
As bad as it looks, everything moves very nice and smooth. Here you can see the stamped B and U with the crown above. I think thats because my Dad cleaned and oiled it well after he retrieved it out of the creek. He is going to try to identify the German troops and the area where he found it. This may take him awhile. Like I said earlier, his memory of those days SIXTY SEVEN YEARS AGO!! Is not that sharp. We'll see what he comes up with.

Luger 1900-1908 ?
 

Last two that I currently have. I can provide more and specifics tomorrow. Thanks in advance for your help!

Hi Doug
The Luger is a model 1900 Commercial. Very early S#128. 172,28 is the bore size.
Thanks for showing, and please send my thanks to your Dad for his service.

Luger 1900-1908 ?
 

One more try on the top photo!

Mike C.
You sound pretty sure. Are you saying that it was manufactured in the year 1900? Was it the 128th Luger made that year? How do you know it's commercial and not military? Could I ever find or make a firing pin? Would I want to? Any idea what country it was manufactured in?
I'll think of more questions after a good night sleep! Thanks!!

It is a MODEL 1900, however if it is sn 128, I would expect that it was made in 1900. You have one of the first ones made, as there was a swiss contract and a commercial contract, so I can't say yours was the 128th made but close. "I don't like how the #128 looks" but I have only seen a few 3 digits.

It is obviously a commercial gun, because that is how they were sold.

You can buy a firing pin from someone, maybe Tom Heller, or on gunbroker.

Its a German Luger, and all were made in Germany (the swiss later made some too).


Ed

Hello Ed, Thank you for your response. What do you mean exactly when you say "I don't like how the #128 looks"? Is it the out of focus sn# on the front of the gun or the sn# on the bottom of the barrel? I could probably get better (focused) photos if that would help?
I will try to get some better photos.
Thank you very much, Ed

New SN # photos on 1900 luger
 

I just took these photos. What do you think? Thanks!

Doug,

Congratulations again on a very early Luger. The Crown/B Crown/U Crown/G proof marks were used on the early commercial Lugers.

The front dimension of the receiver / breech block and extractor are quite different in the early Lugers. These were revised in the 1900/06 and 1906 specifications. Therefore the firing pin components must be the ones for your specific model.

This one should be in the 7.65 x 21 mm Luger Parabellum (.30 Luger) caliber. You should find that a standard No.2 pencil will just fit into the barrel. Here's info on the ammo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65x21mm_Parabellum

This model Luger also used a "S" shaped leaf style rather than coiled recoil spring. If you have not already done, consider carefully removing the grip panels to check the condition of the recoil spring.

You have a very early Luger and it is collectible. It would probably be wise to not try and fire it since you could risk breaking parts, especially since there may be corrosion that is not visible.

Ask Tom Heller about a firing pin and extractor. Also post on this website in the Wanted section.

Collectors would recommend that you not modify the Luger in any way. That said, it may be possible for a restorer to fix some of the corrosion issues if that is important to you.

Cheers!

Marc

Doug,
That is a VERY early commercial Luger and a real treasure. As the other guys have indicated, there are not many other pieces around that are earlier than that one. Generally it is in very nice condition. It is unfortunate that there are some very pitted areas, but surprisingly few and scattered considering it was rescued from a stream! Evidently it spent considerable time inside a wet holster.
The magazine shown is from a later production than the gun indicating that the gun was factory modified to accept this later type magazine. It would be worth a little more if it was unmodified as examples are quite scarce. But, it is a correct, period modification that does not significantly affect the value of the gun.
Your father has given you a significant historical gun. The story behind the gun is great and I am very grateful to your father for his service and for still being around to share the experiences.
The gun is worthy of a proper restoration. There are only a few craftsmen that are capable of doing it right and it would be a little expensive. So you probably will want to let it alone as it is and enjoy it and its history. If you do decide to restore it, please consult this forum for suggestions.
Thank you for sharing.
Ron

Congratulations on a very nice, early Luger!

Besides the firing pin, you will also need an extractor, which is either broken or missing on your gun. I can't see clearly enough on your photos.

It looked funny to me, but now looks good. Like I said, I am no expert on early guns, I can say that I love it and I am jealous :)

I collect bring back stories, did I already say that?

If not, I do :)


Ed

Dads 1900
 

Thanks for the great info. My Dad is trying to retrace his steps after the Germans ran them out of the "Bulge". As you all well know, our guys came back and kicked their butts! He has maps and some of a journal/diary. The stories this gun could tell, uh?. I will post or somehow send along what ever my Dad can construct. My Dad stayed in the Army Reserve for another 40 years and retired as a full Colonel in the "Civil Affairs" unit out of L.A.. At the same time worked his way up from a school teacher to Superintendant of large school districts in L.A. County. His name is Royce Emerson Lapp. He is a survivor with a ton of energy. All four of his children are very proud of him on many levels.

Here is what we have of the firing mechanism, less the firing pin. Can anyone ID that little steel piece that I included in the photo? We're not sure if it was part of the luger or not but it was in the cigar box. There was a belt buckle in the box too so it could have been part of that.

Can someone also explain the "extractor" the might be missing?

I was able to slide a #2 pencil into the bore quite easily. I calibrated the bore with a simple tool and came up with aprx. 7.49mm. Didn't the factory make the bore change in the year 1900? Maybe this has the larger 7.65mm bore? I don't know.

Can anyone speculate at this guns dollar value for insurance purposes only? Thanks again to all. Your all very nice. Thanks too from my Dad. He appreciates your kind remarks. Later!

You can be certain that your Luger is 7.65mm. Here is a photo of the extractor that is missing on your gun.

Extractor
 

Thans Ron,
I guess I can buy one some where, uh?

Tom Heller (Lugerdoc) that has already been suggested as a source for a firing pin may have an extractor as well. Originals are difficult to find but there are some excellent reproductions that have been produced that look, fit and function as the originals. You do not want to get a reinforced Swiss extractor that is available however, as it is not proper for your gun.

Gun Parts Sales & Repairs
Tom Heller (Luger Doc)
P O Box 398
St Charles MO 63302
Tel 636-447-3006
Email- hellerarms@webtv.net

The little piece of metal looks like the end of the original extractor that broke off. It is the end that is inserted into a hole in the breechblock.

Hi,

You have the spring and the firing pin retainer. The other thing doesn't look like a Luger part. Belt buckle part is likely.

From the photo, it looks like the front "claw" on your extractor was broken off. A front photo of the breech block face will confirm. Also, a picture of the breech block rear can confirm that it isn't damaged.

So, looks like you need a replacement extractor and a replacement firing pin.

A #2 pencil will just fit into my 7.65x21 .30 Luger barrel.

Marc

Marc,
The "go", "no-go" test for 7.65mm vs. 9mm is that the eraser end of a standard pencil will not go into a 7.65mm but it will in a 9mm.

1900 luger
 

Two things; My Dad remembers the extractor but unfortunately he must of lost it. Second; I think the #2 pencil has some flaws (now) simply because I have one #2 pencil that will slide in the barrel (and eraser) and I have another stamped #2 pencil that won't. Why? The #2 really refers to the lead and pencils are most likely made all over the world where the diameter isn't consestant anymore.
Can anyone tell me how much I should insure it for??
Thanks again.