GERMANY and MADE IN GERMANY Marking
 

Just curious what I can find out about this stamping. It appears an Export stamp for commercial Lugers destined to be sold in the USA. My question is was the stamp applied after the gun was blued or reblued. I would assume it would show up in the white if on a WWI rebarrel model, but what about new commercial Lugers, would the stamp be applied after the gun was rust blued? I have not thought to really examine this marking before on examples with original finish. Thanks for any help on this marking.:typing:

Thor,
I have seen the GERMANY stamp on the front of the frame under the S#, with and without halos, on what I beleived to be Lugers with original finish. All of the larger GERMANY and MADE IN GERMANY stamps that are found on other various places all showed halos. I hope that others more knowledgeable than me will chime in.

...???...How do you tell an export "Germany/Made In Germany" marking from an import "Germany/Made In Germany" marking???

Ted, would the stamp be applied after the gun was rust blued?
I would think yes..this would be the stronger possibility. It might not be known that the pistol would be destined for an English speaking country. It could be sold in Germany or any other country.
Only after it's export destination were known would the stamp be applied. At least that's my thinking. So I would think any Germany stamp would have a halo.
Jerry Burney

"Made in Germany" halos...
 

Hi,

Here's my DWM Alphabet commercial (from mid 1923).

The barrel clearly shows halos.

The "Made in Germany" (which is on the right side of the receiver) does not.

I don't believe that this Luger has been refinished.

Marc

Halo's ?????
 

So if a stamp has a halo it is put on after blueing??? If you look at my first post I've pictures of my mid 20 DWM. The barrel has halo's but the Germany seems not to on the front of the frame below the barrel with the serial #'s also the last 2 digits of the serial number on the rest of the pistol. What does it all mean???

Patrick,
If a stamp shows halos, it was applied after being blued. If it doesn't show halos it was appied before it was blued. One way of determining if a gun has been reblued is looking for halos of known locations like the S#'s on the barrel, which should show halos. Keep in mind, some halos are very hard to detect.
Rich,
An import stamp has the name, logo, or the initials, and often the location/city and state of the importer. The GERMANY stamps are always export stamps, which shows the country of origin.

Ted, IHO these stamps were applied after bluing. The "Made in (country of origin)" was added in 1923 when required by US law change. Tom

Were final proof marks on left or right applied after or before bluing? What I am curious about is if the receiver is harder / softer and so the halo's don't appear, compared to the barrel?


Ed

Mauser Lugers are harder than DWMs. Barrels, sideplates, frames are relatively softer than other parts. Really hard parts are receiver, breechblock,extractor, front and rear toggle links.
:typing:

Ed,
All acceptance stamps and final firing proofs were added before blueing, in case the gun needed to go back for tweaking or parts changes. No need to finish the gun and then find out it doesn't function properly.

Mine shows halo's on the barrel is that a normal spot for halo's??. Looks like the one in the beginning of this thread. What your saying is if the barrel had no halo's that would be a reblue???? The frame seems to not have halo's or the side marks. Pic's in first thread / My First Luger 30 Cal on this same page of post's. Do not know how to link.

Not rigorously documented, but--

All the "made in Germany" stamps Ihave observed appear to have been stamped after the finish. They are often stamped very lightly, as the example above. The m-i-G stamps on hardened parts such as the receiver sometimes show metal displacement/eruption, even though halo may not be present. In the photo above, the m-i-G stamp is applied unevenly, and there appears to be a bit of halo above the deeper part of the stamp.

--Dwight

FWIW, this is my grandfather's. As far as I know, it's never been touched. I don't see any halos anywhere, but you can clearly see the mis-struck "GERMANY".

Germany Stamp
 

My pistol the Germany on the frame below barrel looks like not a perfect strike either. Pic's on earlier post " My First Lugar" ptrickamp222.

I have two alpha-commercials, both have the germany stamped on the front of the frame between the serial no. and it's suffix. On the one that still has the original finish it looks like the germany was added after bluing. It is lightly struck so it is difficult to determine, but best guess, it seems to have a slight halo.
On the one that has it's original bluing, the s.n. and proof on the barrel show halos, which indicate this was added after the barrel was blued. Was this a common practice with the commercials? All of the frame and toggle markings seemed to have been put on prior to bluing.
Another interesting thing is that on my 30 cal. commercial the C/N proof is on the upper ear of the breechblock left, as well as on the left side of the receiver and bottom of barrel, but on my 9mm commercial the C/N is on the front toggle link, as well as the left receiver, and bottom of barrel. Is there any reason the proof on the toggle assembly would be in different locations or was this just a random placement?
Hope my input is useful, and as always appreciate any info that is forthcoming.
Thanks, barr

The toggle-train proof position is something I am trying to keep track of in the Commercial database. On those Alphabet Commercial pistols where the positions are reported or observed, there appears to be no recognizable pattern in their poslition on the parts.

--Dwight

germany stamp 1927
 

my new 1927 alpha commercial is stamped germany on the left frame heaviest at the end and lighter at the GE maby from normal wear?? matt

I can't help but wonder if the people that did the stamping for DWM were heavy drinkers at times. My latest alpha commercial in 30 Luger has the Made in Germany stamp on the receiver put on it UPSIDEDOWN:cheers:

Schnaps for lunch will do that to you :cheers:

Gentlemen:
In reading the above posts, it seems to appear the majority of commercial Lugers were stamped "Germany". I have a DWM, serial #9805-K", which I'm told is a production year of 1922. It has no "Germany" stamp anywhere. How unusual is that? I mean, were most, or only some marked that way?
As a side note, being new to the Luger addiction, I believe even Sherlock Holmes would have had his hands full trying to track down all of the clues about Luger's many variants and anomalies.
Best Regards,
Adler Auger

Elementary Watson... The Luger was originally sold in Europe and is probably a bring back. :rolleyes:

Adler,

Only commertial Lugers destined to be sold in the US have a "Germany" stamped on them. Our regs, not theirs.
I am not aware of any other country that required the country of manufacturing origen to be stamped on firearms being imported.

Gentlemen:
As always, appreciate the reply and the information.
If I may push the "question" envelope one more time. I've searched the site looking for the subject of numbered vs non-numbered side plates and I'm still not clear on the issue.
My DWM, #9805-K has all matching parts except magazine and side plate. I've scoured the side plate and there are no marks, numbers, symbols, etc. It's my understanding (however fuzzy) that commercial Lugers should have a numbered side plate; Ja, Nein??
I await the verdict.
Best Regards,
Adler Auger aka Dale

Dale, Yes..Commercial Lugers will have the sideplate number on the underside ledge.

Jerry Burney

Thanks Jerry:
I'll keep my eyes peeled for side plate #05 in that case. And even if I don't find one, it's still a great little shooter.
Best Regards,
Dale

I wonder about the side plate numbering myself. I have a commercial Luger in 7.65 without a numbered sideplate. I'm about 99% sure its never been refinished and the sideplate looks like its been on it since the day it left the factory.

David,
It is possible, but unlikely, that it left the factory without a number. The number should be there, so it will always be considered mismatched, even if it was a factory mistake/oversight.

Definitely no number along the lower edge?

I agree that it will always be viewed as mismatched and it is too bad in this guns case. I just have a feeling that it left the factory this way.I was lucky enough to pick it up on the cheap (guy just didn't want it)so no harm done on the wallet. I even looked under magnification for a sign of a number but there is none. I don't get the chance to shoot much anymore, but if I do, it should make one heck of a shooter.

Great Britain had (has) a counry-of-origin import identification requirement, but I'm not sure how that applies to firearms. Britain does have a national proof law, and foreign weapons include "Not English Made" in the proof suite.

--Dwight

Dwight and others: Here is the stamp "not english made" that was referred to. So far as halo , no halo You can be the judge. Its from a byf 43 P.38. I hope you can see it clear enough, my picture skills are lacking a bit. ..Thank You, Dale

Dale, Nice clear photo. It's my recollection that most "tommy" bring back firearms never were registered, although to have them LEGALY registered, the proof house inspection and markings were required. TH