Questions for a new Luger owner
 

Hello all, I received this Luger from my dad a few months ago and have a few questions.

It is 9mm

I know the drop down lever is wrong, a gunsmith said it may be off a Stoeger of the same era...or re-made.

Also, I don't have a pic, but I would really like to know the meaning of the numbers on the metal frame between the grip, below the trigger. Mine shows: 1./N.3.17.

Any insight to my gun, history, etc...much appreciated! Thanks, Phil

More pics
 

More pics...any info or comments are very welcome! Phil

Hi! Welcome! Can you provide a clear picture of the unit markings you are asking about on the front gripstrap?

Also, here is the best pic I could get of the numbers on the inside handle frame , below the trigger. What does this represent?

Phil,

the takedown/locking lever looks really well done and I suspect it is one of a kind

does the takedown show any signs of the exterior lever having been welded or
perhaps threaded/pinned to the inside cylindrical portion of the takedown part ?

exterior part of the takedown may be from a donor non-luger gun safety / locking part

closeup of the right side area on slide proof marks near the barrel mount would help identify luger

my guess would be early post WWI police issue , and has had a reblue at some later time

thanks for sharing !!!
Bill

Hi,

As Clark mentioned, the markings you asked about are most likely unit markings.

Your Luger is a mix of parts from several guns. The forward toggle has DWM in script.

In 1921, DWM was only permitted to manufacture commercial lugers (for private sale, or police departments).

A very small number of Military proofed Lugers with the 1921 date were manufactured by DWM.

You need to re-photograph your Luger without using a flash, and in indirect diffuse light.

Use a tripod, and set the camera for closeup photography.

Clearer sharper pictures will help.

On the bottom of the barrel, get a picture of any numbering. Same thing on the front of the frame above the trigger guard, including any suffix letter that may be there. Is there an "a" or "b" suffix letter on the front of the frame under the numeric portion of the serial number?

I do think you have a particularly nice Wiemar era Luger!

Marc

That is a tough pic to get! See below...Phil

I have already been told this has been re-blued, but I was also told to check out this site and find out what Ya'll think! A little back story...my dad gave me this gun in July...he got it at a gun show in Ohio for $825. I have always been fascinated by lugers (I'm of German decent) and this is the first I've owned and am trying to learn as much as I can about it. It is kind of a "project" me and my dad have to bond again on...!

I will take some better pics and post them to hopefully answer any question ya'll may have.

My goal is to shoot this off a couple time a year when dad is in town, and then store it for a while. He's mid 70's and I', early 40's...

I have just been curious to its history and want to respect that, and keep it in good condition for the next generation to enjoy!! Phil

The grip strap marking is a Reichswehr unit mark from the Weimar period post 1922. It indicates 3rd Kompagnie, 1st Nachrichten-Abteilung, Waffe 17...an intelligence organization.

Here is the synopsis version;

It is a DWM made gun new in 1921, not a refurbished one (see the Weimar acceptance markings) that went to an Recihswehr (army weimar era) unit as George put it; 3rd Kompagnie, 1st Nachrichten-Abteilung, Waffe 17...an intelligence organization.


At some point it was either very well worn or had some pitting and it was reblued, most likely in the USA.


Ed

I think the takedown lever is a very well gunsmith or machinist made replacement... or repair of a takedown lever that was damaged.

Welcome to the Lugerforum.

Alot better pics of markings
 

Here are some better pics I took after I got back from the range...it fired like a champ! Any additional information on the markings shown would be greatly appreciated...the info on the "unit markings" on the grip metal was fantastic..Thanks...Phil

Hi Phil,

The "8.83" on the barrel is the barrel gauge - 8.83mm from land to land.

It looks like it has been refinished using the "salt" bluing process then buffed. Your gun would have originally been "rust blued" at the factory.

The markings on the right of the receiver are the proof marks applied as the pistol completed major stages of testing and acceptance. "WaA4" refers to a weapons inspection office. This gun is of the period of the Wiemar Republic.

Your much better pictures are much more helpful...

Marc

Thanks for the reply!
 

Thanks for the info, Marc. The Weirmar Republic existed from 1919-1933ish according to Wikipedia. Any clues to in that timeframe this gun was manufactured... can we get year specific ( I thought the 1921 wasn't a manufacture date)? Just curious...Phil

Phil,,can we get year specific ( I thought the 1921 wasn't a manufacture date)? Just curious...

You might be confusing the 1920 German property mark, 1920 is NOT a date. 1921 IS the manufacture date on your pistol.

Marc says in his previous posting..A very small number of Military proofed Lugers with the 1921 date were manufactured by DWM.

Ed says in a previous post..It is a DWM made gun new in 1921, not a refurbished one

Jerry Burney

Sorry for the confusion...
 

Yes, as you can see, I'm new to this gun and forum. I have received some conflicting info and am just trying to sort it out!!! No hard feelings! Below is a reply on "The High Road" I got a few weeks ago:
The 1920/1921 dates don't necessarily mean refinished guns or ones made from parts. In 1920, the Weimar republic passed a law banning private ownership of military weapons; guns that were surrendered in compliance with the law were marked with the date received, thus showing legal ownership by the state. Later, those guns were issued to the military or police like any other guns.

Many thousands of military pistols were refurbished and converted to 7.65mm (because making pistols in 9mm for commercial sale was also illegal) for sale on the world market to obtain desperately needed hard currency. But those have all receiver ring markings removed and are not dated. They are, incidentally, good pistols and the ".30 Luger" is a dream to shoot.

a little more as it goes on...
 

Phil, Whoever told you this poppycock is misinformed.

It probably dates to the years of the first World War, but it could be any year from 1908 to 1918. This idiotic statement can be easily refuted by looking at the proofs shown on the right side of the reciever/top slide rail.

If it were 1908 or 1918 these proofs would be intirely different than they are or in the case of 1908..on the left side.

guns that were surrendered in compliance with the law were marked with the date received. Not true. Guns that were under state control were marked 1920 as a property mark.

Hard feelings? None here, we are mind numbed robots.

By the way I have to say..your photo's are excellent! Nice job with them.

Jerry Burney

Wow, I assume everyone else has already experienced this...but how much does the condition of the gun look so much worse when magnified in the photos you take!!! I thought this gun looked "relatively pristine" when I first picked it up! Outdoor, overcast sunshine shows all... Thanks, everyone, Phil

Phil,
A 1920 property mark is usually hand stamped and can be rather crude compared to a date stamp which is roll stamped. Most of the time, when a 1920 property mark was added to a military dated Luger , the original date of manufacture was left on the receiver, creating a "so called" double date. When military lugers were refurbished after WWI for the commercial market, property marks, dates and military proofs were removed.

Cool news
 

Thanks for the reply...as I've said, I'm just learning! I tried to take the best pics of the drop down (inside and out) to help you experts figure out how, why and what, got it on this gun...a gunsmith thinks it may be off a Stoeger of the same era...I have not been able to find a pic of a similar representation...or if it was machined...when? who knows!

Again, thanks...I'm attempting to put together the best history of this particular luger, as accurately I can...shoot it every month or so and pass it along in no worse condition! Phil

Phil -

This is not a particularly good photograph of a so-called "double date" Luger; however, it does show the "1920" property mark on a 1916 LP-08. I think you can see that no attempt was made to remove the original date of manufacture (1916), and you can also see that the "1920" is more crudely stuck too, which is typical.

This photographs appears elsewhere on this Forum.

You have an interesting 1921 example. Someone who knew what they were doing certainly made a unique take down lever.

Hopefully this contributes to some understanding of the frequently misunderstood "double date" issue.

I have fired this gun a couple times now at the range with 50 rounds each time and would really appreciate some feedback! First, the luger is very accurate, much more than I expected and much better than my .380. I do get jams about once every clip. I'm using 115 gr mc. My logic is to keep trying different brands to see which works the best. I would like some info on using 124 gr loads. I know NOT to use the P+. Any help or guidance will be appreciated! Also, does anyone think a repro clip would help (please advise where to get it)...I know the one I have is one (plastic knobs on the bottom) but don't know how old. Thanks for this great site! Phil

Guys here swear by the Walmart Winchester white boxed 115 gr. FMJ. I reload with some luck and occasionally us Sellar and Beloit with good luck. Mec-Gar makes a good magazine and our own G.T. can provide even better springs for the mag. Those are good places to start.
Oh, don't jam the last round into the mag, and also grip the gun tightly.
Have fun.
dju

Phil -

A weak magazine spring will frequently cause a Luger to jam. The toggle action operates so quickly that an old and weakened magazine spring simply can not move the new cartridge into position quick enough. An old spring can become "set" and weakened.

Suggestion: Try using a new Mec-Gar brand magazine and see if this does not cure the jamming problem. These magazine are made in Italy.

You can get them from "Luger Doc" right here on the Forum.

Thank you both for the suggestions...
 

I will try the "white box" and I will get a mag from mec-gar... (dumb question...if I search "luger 9mm", are all the same?)

Phil -

Winchester is the brand, and it comes in a white box

As David mentioned above, you can get it in Walmart.

This and the Mec-Gar brand magazine should do the trick.