Worth of German Luger P08 - never been fired, all matching serial #s.
 

So my father just gave me a German Luger and I have limited info on it. Before I put it in my safe to hold on to I wanted to ascertain a little bit about it, and maybe develop some idea as to its value.

I was told the gun has never been fired, and I believe it. It seems to be in very good condition for a 70+ year old pistol.

It has P.08 on the side and the number 1284 is stamped on the side of the pistol. Every single part of the pistol has 84 on it. There's the number 41 on the front top of the pistol slide and the number 42 near the rear, again the number of 84 is printed in between those two numbers on that particular piece.

It has two never been used issue magazines with the serial number 1284 on them as well. One magazine is painted black and one is what appears to be anodized aluminum. It would appear that all the serial numbers match and it's an all-original gun.

It has a german eagle on the right hand side of the gun in a very fine engraving. There are actually three small eagles side by side along the right hand side of the gun. Two of the eagles have very fine numbers under them, in what apepras to be something like 856, 855, or SSS.
The barrel also has 1284 on it with a smaller 881 number immediately under it.

It comes with a very old interarms manual and german parabellum instruction manual in a plain cardboard box.

Anyway, if you have any questions or need pictures let me know. It would seem the gun may be worth a little more considering its condition and matching serial numbers, I'm just wondering what a good ballpark figure would be.

What you're describing sounds like a 41 (date made) 42(code for Mauser) A semi rare bird, about 7000 made. Look at the front of the frame, under the barrel. There should be a script letter there, under the serial number. Actually it is part of the serial called a 'block'. This tells us more about the sequence of the piece.

The rt side marking are proof and acceptance marks. Should be eagle over 655, or as we say E/655.
then then late test proof.

The 8,81 is the bore measurement, land to land in mm.

FN

FNorm has given you some good information. Chances are pretty good the script letter on the front of the frame is an "O". This letter is part of the serial number.

It would be nice to see some pictures of your Luger, especially the magazines, including the numbers stamped on the bottoms.

Sounds like a very nice pistol!!

Welcome to the forum. Technically, it is "barely been fired" as your's as the markings under the barrel and I am sure proofing on the left, thus, it has been test fired probably 5-10 rounds ;)


ed

There's an 0 but I can't tell if it's a dent/scuff or an engraved letter.

It's directly under 1284 on the frame, sort of at an angle.

The magazines all have the matching serial numbers stamped on the bottom. I'll take some pictures.

http://img829.imageshack.us/i/img1270v.jpg/

http://img837.imageshack.us/i/img1271co.jpg/

http://img843.imageshack.us/i/img1272rk.jpg/

http://img215.imageshack.us/i/img1273ff.jpg/

http://img442.imageshack.us/i/img1274c.jpg/

http://img36.imageshack.us/i/img1275nt.jpg/

http://img841.imageshack.us/i/img1276dq.jpg/

http://img827.imageshack.us/i/img1277e.jpg/

It also has this on the box.

"S-42/38 (MAG or MAO [can't tell which the last letter is])" on top

1920 on side

A112 S#1284 O on other side.

cnv, thanks for the information. The serial number is 1284o and it was completed in January 1941. The next 1941 lugers were called 41 byf. The byf was located in the same position as the "42" on your pistol. There were about 12,000 of your type pistol produced.

Now the bad news. The magazines you have, while numbered to your pistol, are NOT correct. These magazines have been renumberd to match the numerical part of the serial number. The original magazines would be numbered 1284, with an "O" beneath it, and a "+" sign for the second or spare magazine.

It is difficult to give you more monetary information without many and more detailed pictures.

From the pictures you show, it appears to be a decent pistol.

So Interarms faked the magazines when they imported the gun?

I must apologize up front and beg forgiveness. Although a total novice, this appears to me to be "Yokahama, Youkosuka mama" airsoft knock off. If correct, I'd place the value somewhere between $28.395 and $46.3/16th. Being the Novice that I am and also a really nice guy, I'll make you whole for the high end. I'll send you $78.7/8, shipped to my P.O. Box. Please make sure it is in plain brown wrapper. Look forward to helping you out.

You sir, have a most desireable pistol. Keep it in the family. If only more Children today would respect what we have worked/ lived our lives for. Not to understand today, but a few years down the road, realize what you have given away.
Best to you,
Pitsword

Had no intention of selling it, but I do like to know the value of things I have in my possession.

It seems to be in extraordinary condition for a 70+ year old weapon. There are a few minor scratches, but the finish is all there.

Why are there two E655s on the right of the gun and a third eagle without a number?

Also does this Interarms paperwork hold any value?

cnv,

Nice looking piece. Now read about disassembly here:

http://www.wonderhowto.com/search/luger/

BUT! Be especially careful with the left grip. It goes up and under a metal lip for about an eighth of an inch and is very easy to break off the corner by the safety lever. I barely raise it by pushing from the inside then rotate the bottom forward.

Clean/oil as you would any gun using quality products. No oil on the wood!

FN

It appears that there is an import mark along the bottom of the barrel, is this correct? I think this gun maybe an Interarms imported Luger; usually dipped blue before sale.
r/ Tony

no, they did not care, it was done by someone later

I will slowly look at the imageshack pictures, it is HIGHLY suggested that you post pictures here, I find that imageshack /photobucket pictures disappear in a short time.

Value of an import is approx about $600-$700, an extra magazine worth another $100


Ed

Ah, this resembles the pistols that came from Russian storage and were refurbished in Germany for companies like Frankonia who subsequently sold them through their chain of stores and mail order business.

These are very good restorations and make for excellent (almost too good) shooters.
They were indeed delivered in Europe in a plain card board box, with 1 magazine and a Mauser Parabellum manual.

Interarms also offered a batch of excellent pistols for sale to Mauser in the late 1970s, early 1980s. I will look up that document, must have it somewhere. Interarms bought and sold so many pistols between 1960 and 1997 that it is almost impossible to determine where and when these pistols showed up. Many have been in storage for years. Russia had loads and loads of them, other Eastern-Block countries must have had their share of supplies and also the Scandinavian countries had them in their inventories for decades.

Why would it only be worth $600-700?

Would I be wrong in assuming that you are calling it an import because you think it was a production model in the 1970s? This isn't a real Luger made in 1941, and that the manufacturer of the pistol faked the markings? Did they tamper with the gun?

I've seen 30 year old guns and it definitely looks much older than that.

Nope,

-It's a real pre-1945 P08.
-It probably was refinished somewhere along the line, most likely by Interarms in the 1970s.
-Don't confuse it with the post-war Mauser Parabellums that Mauser did between 1969-2000.
-The price Ed quoted is realistic in today's market.
-The interarms material / box actually adds a collector interest :)

A normal 41/42 P08 is worth 1500-2500, right?

So it loses 75% of its value just because it is associated with Interarms or may have been refinished (I don't think it has been)?
Does it have more value if there's no importation mark, since you would not be able to discern it's history as an Interarms firearm? It does say "Interarms, Alexandria VA" on the barrel.

Basically, I'm asking why an Interarms firearm would be worth a fraction of the same gun, made on the same lines, in the same time period, just without one marking on the barrel.

If the gun is only worth $700, I'm going to take it to the range. I have kimbers worth more much more than that.

Well, the good news is that it doesn't look refinished to me.

Personally, I like the Interarms bits, but that is because I have an interest in the company history and their ties with Mauser.

Import markings indeed devalue a pistol (although personally I don't care much, it just adds to the history, if applied properly at least and not by Bubba with a chisel :) ).

It is a nice representation of a wartime P08 that was resold onto the commercial market in the late 70s, early 80s by one of the largest surplus dealers on the planet in those days. So keep the Interarms stuff with it and enjoy it for what it is. At least it's real and I surely wouldn't feel ashamed having it in my safe :)

Alright, you'll have a better idea of the condition % and whether or not it's been refinished from these photos.

http://img541.imageshack.us/i/img1278ew.jpg/

http://img530.imageshack.us/i/img1279ka.jpg/

http://img213.imageshack.us/i/img1280t.jpg/

http://img716.imageshack.us/i/img1281zy.jpg/

http://img94.imageshack.us/i/img1282j.jpg/

http://img688.imageshack.us/i/img1283n.jpg/

http://img844.imageshack.us/i/img1284ti.jpg/

Finish and wear pattern look good to me (slight holster wear at muzzle and on the side plate 'island').

They are very nice guns to shoot, but if you have doubts, let a good gun smith have a look at it and give his ok before attempting to fire it.

It will not blow up, but you may damage small parts that are numbered to the gun, or chip the grips, that would be a pity.

I'm having a hard time comprehending how this weapon is devalued by up to 80% just because it was marked with an import stamp and re-sold commercially in the 70s. It was made at the same time, with the same materials, in the same fashion, and served in the same war as other P08s that are worth $2000+, yet because it was stamped with an import stamp it loses $1400+ in value. It's unlikely that this gun was re-finished, although it's possible.

I understand collectors can be finicky, but I'm just having a hard time understanding that logic. That's even less than the Interarms/Mauser reproduction that were made in the 70's are worth, and this weapon was made in 1941, and has all matching serials (besides magazines).

Then I've just learned that my mom bought this thing from a local gunshow for $4,000, as a birthday present to my dad.

So she basically got scammed by some scumbag *******.

I like the guys that come to Luger -U ask questions........and when they get answers they dont want to hear, they get mad at those who shared info..........


jim

Ouch, although I'm convinced that this pistol could bring a good price at the right time and place, it will take some time to become a $4000 gun.

If it makes you feel any better, I also question the devaluation caused by markings that are required by law and will become part of the gun's history anyway.

Try to enjoy the gun for what it is: A real, original WW2 pistol with an interesting history that was a gift from your mom to your dad. Besides it will go up in value, not down.

Nick, I'm having a hard time comprehending how this weapon is devalued by up to 80% just because it was marked with an import stamp and re-sold commercially in the 70s.

That's just the way it is. Top Luger collectors the World over prefer their guns to be original in all respects. There are those of us who accept less than pistols right off the production line because of the cost factor but ideally most people try to collect as close to the end of the production line as possible.
Any marking that is not German such as the import stamp... completely throws it out of most collectors line of interest. This might not always be true as many guns become more and more scarce but right now it is. There are many guns available without import stamps and most collectors..if they have a choice... will always pick the one without. And pay more money for it.
Like Vlim says..enjoy it for the story and the memories.

Jerry Burney

I'm not mad at anyone here, don't know where you would get that impression. I am mad at whoever sold this pistol to her though.

And it has nothing to do with the money. A few thousand dollars is inconsequential to me, but I am disappointed to have to tell her that the gun she spent her hard earned money on; as a gift, is essentially worthless and that she was ripped off.

Personally, I've never been a fan of Lugers, but I can appreciate that there are those that love them.

So my parents want me to keep this gun, because they are under the impression that it's worth... a lot, when it's simply not. I'd rather just take it out, shoot it, mess around with it... but at the moment, it doesn't seem like it deserves a spot in my safe. This puts me in a quandry because I'm expected to keep it and treasure it (and not shoot it :D). I would never sell a gift that was given to me, like I said... I could care less if this thing was worth $1,000 or $10,000... it's just that if it was worth more, I'd be more motivated to keep it in my safe for the next 20 years and not bring it to the range.

I have other pistols and rifles worth much more than this weapon and I take them to the range. I just hate burning space and keeping a collector's item that isn't even a collector's item.

So basically it boils down to me having a "shooter" but not being able to shoot it.

I mean the gun isn't for sell and probably won't be... ever. But It'd be more enjoyable holding on to something that may be worth a lot more in the future, rather than a gun that isn't worth anything now and probably won't be in the future. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's the best I can put it into words.

Maybe I can get rid of this one, get a real one... and just tell them that it's the same one.

Can you guys tell if it has been reblued?

you don't have to tell her about the value or lack thereof. keep it as a family heirloom and enjoy it as such. Years down the road you can tell your grand children about how their great gramma got this for their great grampa way back when. No one has to know the cost or the value. That's the beauty of heirlooms....

BTW it doesn't look re-blued to me but I am not an expert.

Then don't. It will remain a priceless gift and an expression of their love. Why spoil their memories?

That should work. :thumbup:

But it's not an heirloom. She bought it a couple years ago at a local gunshow, and why would I keep something around that reminds me that people are *******s and take advantage of my mother's kindness and naivety? Not like this thing was taken back from Germany during WW2 by my grandfather.

When I look at it, I basically see... "mom got scammed" written all over it.

I'm the polar opposite of her, I do a lot of research before I buy anything. But she's the kind of person who keeps the people who run infomercials and **** in business, unfortunately.

http://www.auctionarms.com/closed/di...mnum=9220508.0

This gun is half as old, has no WW2 history, was made in peacetime during the 70s, and is worth twice as much as this 41/42?

Hi Nick, As a father and grandfather, allow me to give you some gray haired advice. This Luger is valuable because your parents value it. Because it doesn't appeal to the specialized tastes of Luger collectors, it is not worthless. One of my most cherished possessions is a pair of cheap brass candlesticks, repaired several times, that belonged to my grandmother. I hope that, one day, you will appreciate this gun's true value. All the best, Norm

Think of it this way. I've been collecting for 40 years and if I see a luger with import marks at a gun show, I won't allow it in the house. They have no collector value to me. Actually the same is true if it is mismatched, refinished, or does not have at least one matching mag. I'm that picky.

But.....................if my mom bought it for my dad, it becomes a family piece, and priceless. It gets put away for the family. That applies to every family gun, no matter what the fair market value is.

Is it possible that Mom's memory could be off by one zero?

FN

"This gun is half as old, has no WW2 history, was made in peacetime during the 70s, and is worth twice as much as this 41/42?"...

The answer is yes. The post war Mauser / Interarms gun appeals to collectors of that type of Luger. They will pay that much.

The one you referred to is likely very close to the exact condition it left the Mauser factory in. That is what appeals to Luger collectors.

There are also collectors that have begun to specialize in Lugers that were reworked by the DDR - they are referred to as VoPo Lugers because they were carried by the Volks Polizei in East Germany. They are more valuable to those collectors.

Buyers establish the market value of these things. Conditions change constantly. Part of my tuition at Luger University has been spent on the excellent (if expensive) reference books that are available. Even with these and the background I have gotten here, I still make mistakes - but only make them one time.

Marc

So a 41/42 P08 imported by Interarms that has original finish is worth $600-800.

A 41/42 P08 imported by Interarms that has been reblued is worth $600-800?

Right now, yes. The curent climate is that an import is an import. They are all lumped into the same class.
You might ask a little more for a gun with original finish, but you are still trying to sell a "shooter" among the thousands of "shooters" which were imported into the country in the last decades. You may get your price, you may not.
Would you buy a 10-15 year old used car because it has original paint over one that has been repainted? You may if you are hedging that it will be worth something years from now but most buyers, (the market) would take the repainted car, thus making it more "valuable" as a daily driver. As mentioned above, VoPo Lugers are coming into their own as collector's items but it will be years if ever before nuances like "original" finish make a difference in the sales price.

I know you said it's not for sale, so I'll offer you $5000 for it. Hopefully that will make it worth something to you and you can tell your mom that you turned down a ridiculous offer.

Things are only worth what someone is willing to pay.

Therefore you have a $4000 Luger. As long as you don't try to sell it off, it's worth $4000 - your mom proved that.