Newbie Introduction and 1937 S-42 pics
 

Greetings All,

I wanted to stop in and introduce myself and show off my 1937 S-42. I'm from NE Penna, former military and a casual collector of military firearms. I've spent the last few years working with AK-style rifles and shotguns, and I've only recently rediscovered my first acquisition (see pics below). Anyway, I'd like to say thanks to everyone for all the great information I've gotten from this site!

My photos aren't very good, but if anyone can pitch in with a little info about my pistol I'd really appreciate it. I'll eventually pass it down to my son so it's not for sale, but I'd be interested to know what it's worth if anyone wants to throw out some numbers. I've got a bunch more photos I'd like to post so please wait until I've uploaded them all before replying. Sincere thanks in advance!

Details:

1937 S-42 Mauser P-08
Serial 7461"r" with tons of Waffenstamps
All matching numbers (AFAIK)
Black plastic grips (original?)
Non-matching period magazine (5715"g")
Finish not so good (%?)
Fed and fired flawlessly until the Hold-Open Latch Spring broke
Anyone know where I can find another spring?

Warm regards,

Sapper

Photos Part II
 

Here are some more pics!

Photos Part III
 

And more pics...

Final Pics
 

This is it for the photos. Thanks again!

Sapper,

Welcome to the forum! Nice Mauser Luger...

I can't tell from the pictures... Is there bluing finish left on the gun, or is it mostly in the white?

Get some preserving oil onto your Haenel magazine to stop the corrosion. I'm not sure what you should do to remove the rust. Perhaps light use of 0000 steel or brass wool?

Tom Heller ("lugerdoc" on this forum) is a great source for original Luger parts and advice. I've dealt with him several times and am happy with each transaction.

I don't have my references here, but will chime in later if others don't fill you in on details about your Luger.

If you choose to fire this after you've done your repair, look for reduced loads. Lugers were not designed for today's NATO power or +P rounds. Many recommend common white box Winchester 115gn or 124 gn ammo.

All matching parts increase the value of your gun. If you shoot it and break a numbered part, the value will drop considerably.

Finish condition is next on what collectors look for. Values jump as you get better than 95%.

Any refinish work reduces collector interest.

Marc

mrerick,

Thanks for replying so quickly. I believe there is very little original finish left on this pistol. I'm more interested in making this a family heirloom than ever selling it, so would I be "ruining" this pistol by having it refinished? And thanks for the tip about the ammo. I'm pretty sure I've never fired high-powered loads though it, but I'll look for low-power rounds from now on.

Anyone have any thoughts about the grips? My luck has never been that good, so I expect they are reproductions. And are there any parts that should be marked that I didn't get pictures of? The broken Bolt Hold-Open Spring was not numbered so replacing it shouldn't detract from the pistol should it? Thanks.

Regards,

Sapper

I am a total, learning, novice. Shouldn't there be the "Mauser hump" at the back of the frame? A couple of parts look fire blued. Very nice Pistol.

pitsword

Hi Sapper,
Could you please post a pic of the bottom of the barrel? Barrel appears to have better finish than remainder of pistol.
Thanks,
pitsword

Hi sapper, welcome to the forum.
I own a 1937 S/42, too.
The black grips do not belong to your gun. The black bakelite grips were used on the so called "black widdow"-Lugers 1941, 1942 byf models.
I have no idea if they are originals or reproduction parts. More experienced members will tell you that.
I guess the 1937 S/ 42 Lugers whithin the r # block should still have strawed parts. Your small parts look like they were blued.
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=3206

Pitsword, nice luger and great pictures. Like you I know less than a novice about lugers. I'm your man for 1911's, M1 Garands and S&W pistols, but totally lost on lugers. The Winchester white box shells are easy to find at least here as I have already purchased a box to test fire my new baby.
Bill

Pitsword,

Here's the underside of the barrel. The pic doesn't show it, but it's marked with the serial (7461) and then 8,82 in smaller numbers close to the receiver. The barrel is significantly darker than the rest of the pistol. Thanks.

Regards,

Sapper

I think it's a judgment call when there is no finish left on the gun. Check with "Thor" who does restoration work on this forum. I doubt that money invested in refinishing would accumulate to it's eventual sales value, but could be wrong on this. Even if you don't plan on selling it because of family connection, there is also the matter of the historical accuracy destroyed when an original gun is refinished.

I do know that there are several people that seek out refinished guns because they look so nice, and have lower prices than more collectible guns.

Jan Still's forum entry at:

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=17906

indicates that the hump was present and not present in 1937.

also transition from rust blued to salt blued that year.

Marc

Your holdopen looks intact and comnplete to me...

There must be another reason why your pistol malfunctions.

Thanks for the link. I have to admit that it doesn't mean a whole lot to me (I'm learning though). Is my serial early or late for 1937? Does the pitting and wear on my pistol look too severe for a quality restoration or are those issues fixable? I feel bad having so many questions with nothing to offer in return, but this forum seems to be the definitive source for Luger knowledge on the Web (and not too hard on annoying newbs either). Thanks.

Regards,

Sapper

It was when the photo was taken :mad:

Regards,

Sapper

AH! If it is the spring that's broken that can be replaced while keeping the main part with it's number. Don't worry about asking questions. We LOVE to look at lugers and ponder on some mysteries.

Like: Wonder what happened to the finish on this one? The grips appear to be genuine, but not to this model. Are there little fibers inside the screw holes?



1937 was a transition year for many parts/procedures.. Sometimes things got mixed up. Your's should have strawed small parts being in the range, 4500p-1500t. Which makes me wonder about an older refinish. Early 1937s didn't have the Mauser hump, then some did, later all did.

Your mag is a type 3 army, 1939-1941. Correct would be a type 2, 1936-1940. This one has a slant bottom, coil spring, blued with a solid aluminum bottom.

FN

FN,

Wow, thanks for the info. I'll post a WTB about the spring. I can't see any see fibers in the screw holes (in the frame), but the divots (?) on the backs of the grips that don't go all the way through seem to have fibers. I'd be interested in trading the grips for a more correct set or even a correct magazine, but I'm not sure if mine are worth anything or not.

The finish is a mystery to me as well. If anyone else has heard of or seen anything like this one I'd love to know.

I think I would eventually like to have this pistol professionally restored. It doesn't need to be collector grade for it to hold value for me and mine. You guys have been great so far, and I really look forward to everyone's observations and opinions.

Regards,

Sapper

Get in touch directly with LugerDoc about the spring. He's the most likely source...

Marc

Sapper,

Those grips, if real could be worth a set of wood grips AND a proper mag. On the how to vids, they show how to change out a HO spring with a pin punch. Doesn't look difficult.

http://www.wonderhowto.com/search/luger/

Lugerdoc has parts and service. Thor does restorations that are miraculous.

FN

How would I be able to tell if they're real?

Regards,

Sapper

Sapper
Personally I can see no reason to have this restored. It is what it is. I doubt if you could ever get back the funds spent on restoration. Enjoy it the way it is. If you get the luger bug then purchase a better grade luger. You will be money ahead. Welcome to the Forum. Bill

Welcome to the Lugerforum. The gun is apparently in good mechanical condition, and the lack of finish puzzles me. If this is not a family heirloom, then I agree with Bill Lyon, and the refinish or restoration is not warranted. Just keep it clean and oiled.

The grips appear to me to be genuine original German production grips (post 1940) and are fragile. They can break if dropped or during firing since the bakelite is nearly 70 years old. I would sell them to a collector... you can offer them here in the for sale forum for around $250 and someone who needs them to complete their collectible Luger will buy them...and get yourself a nice set of reproduction grips in plastic or wood for less than $40 if you so choose.

You were wrong about your photos, they are of high quality... (except for the photo of just the underside of the barrel which is out of focus) they are much better than most post here.

Now to the matter of whether or not the gun is all matching... I don't think so. I think the sideplate has been replaced, and possibly numbered to match your pistol. Why?

Because the sideplate is not marked properly on the inside... I would like our Mauser experts to consider that the two digit number on the inside of a Mauser sideplate is NORMALLY one digit higher than the first two digits of the whole serial number... so in this case the number on the inside of the sideplate SHOULD be "75" and not "74"

If this is not the case for 1937 Lugers, then someone who has a published reference, or experience looking at many of this year Luger please comment. (Jan Still, Frank Manders are you listening?)

Thanks for sharing, and if you have any other questions just ask!

There are folks on this list who could help more than I can. They should be along shortly.

Opps They're already here! LOL. Bill and John snuck in ahead of me while I was on the phone.

See New collectors forum, FAQ, item #20, discussion of side plates.

FN

O

The discussion of the Mauser side plate interior s/n transition in 1937 is in FAQ #24 of Ed Tinker's New Collectors forum FAQ posting...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

It indicates that in an early 1937 Mauser, the first two digits of the serial number (instead of first two digits +1 found on later Mausers) would be correct.

Seeing some rust inside the back of the receiver, I wonder if there was once more surface rust on this Luger, and someone took steel wool and Naval Jelly to it to try and remove it... That would efficiently remove the bluing too.

Marc

IMO your grips are original and what I call Type 6 in my Black Grip Study over on the other Luger forum. As mentioned earlier, they are not correct for this gun.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=8859

wlyon, John Sabato, FN, et al

OK I'm hooked. We've got possibly original black grips on the wrong pistol, a trigger sideplate that may have been altered, and metal finishing that makes no sense to anyone. My uncle says the pistol is in the same condition it was in when he received it from my grandfather. My uncle was also known to do some pretty inexplicable things in his younger years. I love a good mystery, and this one only makes the gun more valuable to me. I know I'll never recoup the money that I'll pay for a restoration, but I've never been interested in selling it anyway. My sincere thanks to everyone for taking a little time to help me.

Regards,

Sapper

Sapper.... FWIW I will tell you that the black grips were also used as replacement grips after roughly 1941. So they could have very well been put on during the war but were not on the gun when it left the Mauser factory in 1937.

tau-delt, Thanks for the link. I'd love to know how these grips (rather rare from what I gather) got matched with this pistol (relatively common?). I'll be sure to take them off and put them somewhere safe until I decide whether or not to trade them.

mrerick, Thanks for clearing up the sideplate issue. If I read your post correctly, I guess that means that I'm back to having a sorta matching pistol (minus the grips and magazine of course). Certain parts of the pistol definitely look white while the barrel retains quite a bit of blue. I think your scenario fits the situation quite well. I think my uncle tried to clean the rust off certain parts and ended up stripping the finishing. Now that he knows what these pistols can be worth, he's too embarrassed to admit his mistake. Ha!

Regards,

Sapper

Sapper..... I agree about it being the correct sideplate.

I took another look at your great pictues and believe I see an Eagle over 6 stamp on your hold open. IMO this is a replacement part originally made by Simson and again could have been a replacement during the war. Simson stamped parts show up on 1939 Mauser Banner guns and many believe that left over parts from Simson went to Mauser.

The original hold open would have had the last 2 digits stamped like the rest of the parts.

If it were mine, I would leave it just like it is.....

tau-delt,

Man this is fun. We've figured out the sideplate is okay, but now the hold-open is not original. I just checked it again (minus the spring - arghh!), and the only mark on the piece is the Eagle over 6 stamp you mentioned. Now I won't feel bad about replacing the broken hold-open spring. I'm really torn about having the pistol restored. Since my intent is for this pistol to remain in the family forever (I know, I know), I'd like to have it as nice as possible. I kind of feel like the later destruction of the original finish has already made this piece historically inaccurate. If I knew for sure that this pistol is in the same condition it was in when it was brought back, I'd leave it as is. I think the evidence is starting to show a few post-war modifications though. Opinions and suggestions welcome!

Regards,

Sapper

Sapper,

"Man this is fun..." We got him hooked guys!!!!

Read Tau-Delt again. This may/could be the original HO. Some things we'll never know.

FN

FN,

Yeah, you guys got me. I guess I'm not clear about tau-delt's post. My current hold-open is most likely a Simson replacement either used to repair my pistol at some point or sent to the Mauser factory as an overrun. But wouldn't Mauser still have produced a numbered original hold-open for my pistol? Or would that part have been omitted from the production cycle because they had a quantity of Simson hold-opens on hand for use in assembly? I know we'll never know the answer to these questions as they relate to my pistol, but if I did have any intention of selling it -- is it possible that my metal parts might have been all original from the factory but non-matching (because of the hold-open and the Simson overruns) and therefore not as valuable?

Regards,

Sapper

Simson only made 12,000 Lugers from the early 1920's (when they also rebuilt many WW-I guns) through 1933 when they were dissolved and the tooling shipped to Krieghoff.

So, Simson manufactured pistols and parts are rather scarce and valuable. The Eagle/6 inspector was assigned to the Simson plant.

If you want to have it "as nice as possible", I'd suggest that you're there right now, with repair of the hold-open spring. Just keep it protected with protective lubricant.

A proper restoration by someone that is expert on these will run several hundred dollars. A local shop might be able to do it for a lot less, but would end up doing something that was not authentic to it's original condition. In any case, the way it left the factory was probably quite different from the way your grandfather found it.

The process of "rust bluing" is quite different from hot salts bluing that is more commonly done. Search around and you'll find some interesting information on this and strawing...

Remember, during the war they didn't care about the markings on the parts - they just wanted Lugers to work properly.

It's very possible that the Simson part was installed during a factory, depot or an Army field armory rework.

Marc

mrerick,

Gotcha. I think I'll defer to you guys on the restoration. What does everyone think about trading the black grips (if they do indeed turn out to be real as the above posts seem to indicate) for a set of correct grips and a correct magazine? Also, what oil/lube/etc. do you guys recommend for optimal preservation and appearance?

Regards,

Sapper

Ditto Marc above. It is sortta a family heirloom, I'd probably keep it as it was passed down. Maybe do something about the finish?? As Bill says, if you want, get another, a better collector grade.

How does it shoot? One of my best shooters is a totally mis-matched 41 byf. There must be 5 different numbers in there, the frame is salt blued, the upper is rust blued, the trigger guard looks like a tank ran over it, BUT it shoots very well!

hehehe... PSST! Hey Kid! The first one was for free. Now, wanna buy a REAL luger? Don't worry, you can quit anytime you want... LOL

FN

FN,

HA! Quitting isn't the issue. If only I could buy one anytime I want...

I've only ran one box of rounds through this pistol since I've owned it, so I can't really vouch for it's accuracy. It fed and fired fine, and I'm sure it shoots better than I do. I did kill a skunk with it. The stupid thing was wandering around my driveway in broad daylight acting slow and confused. The P08 was the only weapon I had handy, and it did the job very well at about 8 meters. The hold open spring broke during reassembly and not during firing.

Any ideas about what I could do to help the finish?

Regards,

Sapper

There are many oils that help prevent corrosion.

This site links to one:

http://www.boeshield.com/rust_preven...s_firearms.php

I use RemOil (from Remmington) spray and some 3M lubricant sprays. Some swear by Kroil.

Don't use WD-40...

Spray em on... let them sit for a while; wipe the excess off. Avoid the grips.

Marc

Hmmm. slow and confused could equal rabid. good shot! what part of the country you in?

FN

If you DO decide that you have going to have the finish of this gun restored, PLEASE don't give the work to anyone who will BUFF THE DAYLIGHTS out of it... even without finish, your markings are clear and all sharp edges are still sharp. Keep it that way... that's the way it left the factory. Shiney isn't always better.

FN, That's what I was thinking. I'm in NE Penna above Scranton/below Binghamton, NY.

JS, I hear Thor here does outstanding work. Anyone else recommended?

Regards,

Sapper