Simpson's lost mind
 

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...e9470968d46e15

I don't know who is running this outfit these days but they don't know Lugers. $3500 for a reblued Artillery with fake grips. I didn't bother to look further...Pretty sad state of affairs. You would think they would have the decency to point out these things to a prospective buyer.

Jerry Burney

It seems that there are few Good Dealers now days, I bought a fake Trommel snail drum magazine from CMR UK when I thought it was original as they stated.:mad:
Alf.

Jerry,

The blue looks original to me. The barrel S/N halo is there. The straw is weak, but appears to be present. The photo of the top shows high edge wear on the sight and barrel extension.

Ron

Jerry, are You sure it wasn't 'Simson'

I have to go with Ron on this one. Some of the photos are a bit dark, showing the blue to be a bit more blackish than it really is. The lines are crisp and clear, halos are present and the overall wear seems to be consistant with age.

The takedown lever looks dark indeed, almost as if it was blued but this can also be a result of reflections (had the same problem trying to photograph pistols with small parts that had no strawing left).

The grips look like late war beech versions to me.

Of course, one has to inspect a pistol up close and personal to be sure, but it looks good to me.

PS: I'd love to see a 'Homer Simpson Commemorative Luger' :)

'Fraid I have to go with Ron's assessment also. Looks like just a real nice gun with correct beech (Buchenholz) grips. I have found that these late war light colored grips can be numbered to the gun, have only misc. Imperial/inspector's markings, or no marks at all.

Ron W. is right on about the grips. I have two 1918 DWMs with beech grips, one set numbered to the gun and one blank. Regards, Norm

Ron, I am in an agreeable mood myself..a very nice blue on the safety lever. Almost a black blue. Sure to be original don't you think?
The grips are such a poor fit I can't believe they would be original. But then the excellent photo's Simpson's has..who can say?

Jerry Burney

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...perhaps I need a few to look at the gun differently :)!

What Luger Dealer do you believe have the worst photographs??

Lately, the photos on Simpson's site have been underexposed. I lightened up a couple of them for this rig.

Anyone care to comment on the black safety lever and the Grand Canyon type gaps in the left grip around the mag release and the safety lever? No need of beer goggles to see these...

Jerry Burney

Hi Jerrry, I have an almost identical 1918 rig (with matching number beech grips). Although this safety hasn't turned black, I have seen it on other guns. Regards, Norm

Norm, Compare your grip recesses with the 1918 offered by Simpson's. Yours are tight..the way they should be.

Safety levers do discolor but Simpson't isn't discolored. It's been blued. Something has happened to the left grip area of this pistol.... I don't care what anyone says or how they might explain it away. It's not right and certainly not what a serious collector would miss on an Artillery priced like this one is.Your photo is living proof of that.

One other thing I might add..Your pistol shows a beautiful color on the beech grips. What one would expect. Simpson's by comparison is washed out and almost grey ...they do not look at all like beech.


Granted I'm just dumb Mountain folk but these flaws are not what I will be lusting after when I buy my next $3000 Artillery pistol.

Jerry Burney

Hi Jerry, Since when has Yuma been mountain country? Regards, Norm

Norm, This is not my home. I am just visiting. My Home for the last 45 years has been and will always be in the high mountains of Colorado. I slip down here for a few Winter months to escape Mother Nature. She is a harsh mistress at 8000 feet.

Jerry Burney

Jerry,
I think that not only the thumb safety but also the magazine release also has been blued. The pictures are just too dark to check out the rest of this artillery Luger. Dons lightened pictures of the front of the receiver and under the barrel look good though. But $3450 for this arty? I think not.

The problem is that most individuals look at FGS and Simpsons websites to price their Lugers. But both Simpson and FGS have NEVER been known for their bargains. I have been watching Gunbroker for a long while and I have seen a lot of junky lugers going for outrageous prices. But I am not going to put the knock on either Simpson or FGS. They are risk taking businessmen. Thats the beauty of America. If the seller prices his item too low, then the article will sell REAL fast. If the seller prices his item too high, then it will sit there forever.
Big Norm (Hee Hee The other Norm)

I thought I would bring up something I saw as an issue that is more common than it once was. Describing a sales offering accurately and showing it with clear photo's is what I expect from a large dealer or guy selling one item . One guy selling a pistol might not know...a large dealer has a much larger responsibility.

When a questionable example comes along..it can often come here for discussion. When it does... I expect to get unbiased, accurate, honest opinions from people I trust . I try to do just that when an item arrives that is in my area of interest and I have an opinion about it. I am asked dozens of times a month for just that. Unbiased, accurate, honest opinions.

I am beginning to wonder if my expectations are misplaced.


Jerry Burney

Why?

Hi Big Norm, We have at least three Norms. There's you, Big Norm, there's Grande Fnorm, and me Vente Norme. Regards

If you zoom in all the way on the safety lever. It doesn't look blued. It appears to have heavy patina. I'm not defending their prices. It's just my observations.

Ron

Hi again Jerry, I've found this picture of a 1910 DWM safety that has a distinctly bluish hue. Perhaps it's caused by the oils naturally present on ones fingers, or maybe sauerkraut juice. Who knows? Regards, Norm

Here is a lightened photo of the items in dispute. No opinions. I have no dog in this hunt.

Hi Norme, I can only hope that all the other Norms are as good looking as I am.
Big Norm

Looking at the photos again I noticed something odd. Perhaps Jerry managed to fuel my paranoia here :)

The front of the frame, the part where the serial number is struck, seems to have been ground down. Note that the receiver slightly extends past the front of the frame. The serial number area is relatively flat and there is a clear separation line between the curve of the frame front and the flat part of the serial area. That would almost suggest that the frame was renumbered to match the barrel/receiver.

Jerry,
I hope that in no way did I hammer you. I have been on this forum for a long time and you and Ron Wood are two guys that are in a class of your own. If I gave the appearance that I thought any different then I apologize.

Thanks to Don M's good pictures of the arty in question, it is clear that comments about possible bluing of the thumb safety and mag release button can be put aside. It is just a problem of some pretty bad patina on these parts. Maybe we should send Simpson a note recommending Don M or Norme to go to Simpsons place and teach him how to take better pictures or lighten up the ones that he does take. Thanks guys.

There is another 1918 artillery on Gun Broker. Better pictures. But at $3900, I didn't look at it very long.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=160791510

Big Norm

It's really not seller's responsibility to guarantee anything. Buyer will be the owner, and will take sole responsibility to everything. As long as seller could honor 3-day, or 5-day, he/she is a good seller. My requirement when playing buyer role is not high.

Gerben,

The frame machining you describe is much more common than you might expect. This appears to be one of the finishing "shortcuts" which shows up in later production, and carries over into Weimar-era production.

--Dwight

Dwight,

Thanks, yet another detail for my 'to do list' :)

My 1917 LP08 has had it's serial number removed and renumbered in a rather abusive way, so I tend to look at this area with some suspicion. Basically I like the receiver and the frame to be somewhat more flush than this one. Makes one wonder if DWM 'recycled' frames during wartime production by removing the serials of 'mishaps' and feeding them back into the system. Mauser did this in the 1970s, so it's not that far fetched.

Looks to me like a bit of touch-up with cold blue on the grip screws and safety lever. The left grip, as Jerry notes, is not the kind of fit I would expect to find. The halos on the barrel numbers look good but the toggle photos are too dark to judge.

Gerben,

I've given this one a lot of thought. Rre-use and re-numbering of frames is also one of the presumptions in the theory of post-war Commercial guns being made from military production parts. As the serial numbers were stamped after the pistol was fitted and finished, re-used and re-numbered frames would imply the existence of a lot of other re-numbered parts, which are not seen in practice.

Joop probably has more to say on this subject.

--Dwight5

Even for parts originally made to be used on military guns, if unused, should it be unnumbered..... numbered means recycled parts from complete guns. Let's assume that true, recycled parts, but where the "donors" came from? Maybe from military rejected guns.... what's the rejection rate..... why did not the factory simply fix the specific problem... that would be less effort.....

Legitimate renumbering opens padora's box. Anything can be covered here, but limited to frame only?

Don M ( or anyone... )
A question: how do you 'copy' a photo from Simpson's web site? A 'right-click' doesn't bring up the standard "Save Photo As" that I'm used to.
Like many collectors, I like to keep photos of various weapons for reference purposes and some sites are like this one, whereby I am unable to access them.
Any tips in this regard would be appreciated!
Thanks,
JohnB/

I just tried the right click procedure and I too have no success, It has to be a block. I'll figure a way!

Try going to "File" and save the webpage.

I just print the page to PDF format. It works for me.

Alf.

I do the same as Alf. The Simpson photos are in .pdf format and have to be "printed" to software capable of accepting this format. I use PDF Creator. I can then save the file as a .jpg file and subsequently edit it with Photoshop or other editing software.

Thank you all! I kind of figured there had to be a way around it but never thought about PDFing it. I'll give `er a try.
Again, my appreciation for answering.
JohnB/

A few weeks ago they offered a LP08 Erfurt 1914 complete rig for $2990 (pistol + stock + holster).
The photos were very bad and dark, but I recognized an early corduroy made holster...a bargain for this price ! Unfortunately they refused to sell the holster separately.

I forgot: I don't know why these guys, and others, protect their photos while anyone can save them easily with any screen capture software. I use a french free soft (capturino) very easy to manage. Look at Google, and try "screen capture software",
choose the smallest free soft and install it on your computer, you will be able to save all protected photos in any format.