Free up relic luger
 

Hello all!

My first post here.

I have recently accuired a luger in relic condition, grounddug with loaded mag, no bullet in chamber though.

I have started to try to get the mechanics to move again and it´s going forward, the rear linkage is free and I can pull it up until it´s supposed to start and pull the forward part backwards, but I can´t make that happen.

Is there something that can block the forward part from moving? The safety is on, and I haven´t managed to get it moving yet, could that interfere? The magasin is also still in place, but that shouldn´t be the problem, or?

Any hints on getting forward with this would be highly appreciated.

There is a mag. hold-open device that could be doing its job, and the safety is also an issue regarding movement of the toggle. Not to mention tight tolerances on the toggle slide groves.
Have you tried removing the grips and soaking the whole thing in a penetrating oil such as 50/50% ATF and acetone?
Send us some pictures. Sounds like a fun project for all of us.
dju

I have been spraying it with WD40 several times a day for a week, and before that I used electrolysis on it.

Here are some pictures of it. The grips are black plastic, have only one side though.

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8030/dsc0001copy.jpg

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8472/dsc0007copy.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5154/dsc0009copy.jpg

This is how it looked when i got it:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7742/dsc0039copyd.jpg

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1282/dsc0042copy.jpg

...Hmmm...It appears that besides being broken/rusted off, the safety is also "on"...You won't be able to draw the toggle assembly back until you get the safety "off"...

..I wouldn't know where to start...

Do you have both bakelite grips? When taking them off, where they damaged in any way? They are valuable in undamaged condition....

Hi, If you can remove the bakelite grip, you could try the thermal expansion method to break things free. Chill the gun in the freezer, then drop in a pot of boiling water. After a few minutes, remove, shake out as much water as you can, then spray liberally with WD40. I have done this with old black powder guns with some success. Good luck! Norm

postino:
Thanks, then I´ll know that I must keep working on getting the safety to the off position before anything else.

alanint:
Nope, have only one side.

Norme:
As you can see from my first pictures the grips is off on both sides. Thanks for tip on the hot/cold method, might give that a try.

Just one grip, if undamaged, is still worth money to a collector who needs that one....

Here's a poor pic taken with my cell phone (my digital camera battery is flat :mad: ) showing the safety off (top) and on (bottom)...Good luck freeing that up... :thumbup:

Hi again, It is not necessary to move the safety lever off "safe" to fully open the action of a WWII Luger. This only applies to guns with an unmodified sear bar manufactured prior to mid 1916. Regards, Norm

Out of interest, how did you get the gun into its current 'clean' condition from the rusted one?
I have just found a mud-caked Luger in the fields of france. A search of the word 'Somme' should find it on this forum.
Macadoon

alaint:
Could be but the grip stays with the gun :)

Macadoon:
Using electrolysis(bucket of water, car battery charger and some painting soda), it´s the absolut best way to remove rust.

Hi Norme! None of my three Lugers will open the toggle with the Safety on...two are commercials; one is a 1937 S/42... :confused:

With the 'new safety' it is possible to open the toggle slightly, not fully.

The only way to free the toggle on this one is to get the blocking part of the safety out. Since this is a tight fit, the chance that you can free it is actually pretty good.

What was the purpose of drilling into the magazine? To make the rounds inert?

Soak it for DAYS in a bucket of KROIL or a mixture of 50% acetone and 50% automatic transmission fluid... then try to work the parts away from each other. Do this until you have success. The safety bar that stands in front of the sear is not being held into the frame by anything other than rust since your photo shows the safety lever is broken... after soaking try hitting this part on top with a brass punch... if it moves you are in business for taking the gun apart...

...but once the magazine is removed, I wouldn't put too much effort into disassembly... just mount it on a plaque with the grip side up and it will make a great wall hanging in your den or gun room. Just my $0.02

Vlim -

My three will open the breech block 3/32"; 1/8"; and 3/16" , with the S/42 being the 3/32"...

Would these be the 'new safety' that you speak of???

And the 'old safety' - would that the the safety that pivots in the opposite direction???

The OP appears to have the 'new safety'...or would have, if it hadn't rusted away...

Hi Rich, This is a photo of my byf, just like the gun in question, with the safety on and the action open. Of course, if one wanted to disassemble further, the safety would have to be off, the take down lever deployed, and the trigger plate removed, as well as the magazine. This gun has a long way to go before that can be done! Regards, Norm

Hi Rich, me again. I can't believe you can't open the action of your 1937 S/42 when it's on safe. Here's a photo of mine. Regards, Norm

None of my three will, Norme. Very strange... :confused:

OK! I see what our problem is...We're comparing apples & orangutans... ;)

I was trying to pull back the toggle with the magazine in, the safety on, and the lockwork in the fired position...

If I try it with the lockwork in the ready-to-fire position, the toggle(s) will pull up... :D

I have just re-read this, and it sounds like a good idea...but I would suggest boiling first, then freezing...

Heat expands...cold contracts...The parts might contract enough to slide loose...

Also, since you have drilled mag already, it might be good to cut/chisel away what is left of thin sheetmetal in mag, remove cartridges, and peen down mag until it collapses and you can pull it out...

Finding an old beatup junk mag to display in it should not be too big a problem...

I have now managed to get the safety to the off position, still trying to get the forward part to move...

If you manually open the toggle, the receiver will be pulled backwards slightly. So when freeing up the toggle, it is important to remember that the receiver must be freed up at the same time.

On the other hand, if you manage to shift the receiver backwards, you will eventually work the toggle as well, as it will hit the frame ramps.

About the safety types: have to play with them some more :)

Thought the safety was used partly to do that...hey, I think I see a little bluing left!

Well I have now gotten the magazine out, the upper most round was still live.

Still can´t get the thing to move though, seems to be the receiver that is stuck to the frame, gonna try that heating and chilling thing next and see if it helps.

If there is no round in the chamber my old approach may work:

I took a cylinder head bolt from a Mercedes-Benz S-Class (well, it seemed appropriate in a weird kind of way), placed it in the barrel. Put the gun in a vise and whacked the hell out of it with a hammer, hitting the exposed bolt head.

With a round still in the chamber, this method would not be advisable, unless firing cylinder head bolts through the workshop is your thing :D

Slightly OT, but Postino is correct. The new safety will only allow you to unload the pistol with the safety applied when the firing pin is under tension. When the firing pin is in the fired position (the way I store my pistols), the toggle cannot be opened with the safety applied.

The simple reason is that the firing pin extension cannot clear the sear bar while moving backwards, as the sear bar is locked in place by the safety. Which, of course, is the way the safety is supposed to work. With the safety applied and the gun c*cked, it is possible to open the toggle as the firing pin extension does not have to clear the sear.

A clever little trick that cost DWM a fortune and helped Georg Luger to get kicked out of the company the minute they had the chance to do so :)

Some more small steps forward: Using the method Vlim(Thank you!) suggested I have now gotten the forward link with the breechblock to move freely, at least a bit.

How far is it supposed to move before the receiver also needs to move backwards?

If I understand you correctly: The receiver moves back about a quarter of an inch, before the toggle starts to move up on the ears.

FN

I think I ment the other way: If I pull the toggle, the forward link with the breechblock starts to move but then stops when the opening is about 1cm, it sounds like it hits something. I think it´s when the recevier is supposed to move back, but I´m not sure.

I have tried heating the gun and dropping it in the snow but the receiver is still stuck solid to the frame.

Tested one of mine pulling on the toggles. Yeah, that's about right. Breech opens about 1cm, then the upper starts back.

FN

Ok, thanks, then I know I have to keep trying to get the receiver free.

If you can get the takedown lever going, you can tap off the receiver from the back, moving it forwards.

Still no success in getting the barrel section and receiver to separate ;( I have been soaking it with severeal cans of WD40 and pounding on it but no go. I have even tried a special rust solvent that cools down the rust to -40 C to crack the rust and then penetrate it with the rust solvent, but that didn´t work either.

I guess that the small tolerances of the luger makes it hard for the solvent to penetrate enough to get to the rust.

It seems like this old war horse has been taking a beating. If it were mine, I would display it as is. There is no reason to get the toggle to work, since it will never be shot.

Norme, The PO8s with a relieved safety bar will only open with the safety on, if the FP is cocked. If FP forward, the safety must be off for the toggle to come all the way back. In this case of a broken safety lever, I would attempt to remove the safety lever from the frame and lower the safety bar. I can sell you an unbroken pitted safety lever cheap. I also have a simi;ar condition (worn, but not chipped or cracked) matching original right BW grip available. TH

Hi Tom, The relic in question isn't mine, it belongs to a gentleman named Torbjorn (see 1st post). Regards, Norm

Absolutely love relics and this one is just fantastic. IMHO, i would just get the live rounds out, throw a protective coating of sealant or lacquer on it, and on the wall in a frame it would go. Looks great and there is still plenty of it left. It's probably both brittle, and has been condition-fused together from all the weathering. I would just leave it but thats me :)

That's a cool relic indeed. I live in South Dakota and a friend of mine had found a Colt revolver from the late 1800's by a creek bed after a rain. It was in similar condition to this one that you have. Good luck on getting it apart. Send us pics if you do!