Artillery rig- need pics
 

O.K.- I know this is a dumb question, but it must be asked by me.
I have an Artillery rig with mag pouch and a thin, leather strap I can't figure out how it is suppose to be worn. Anyone out there have pics available to post
- even old military photos- of how an Artillery rig is worn?

Thanks,
Derek

Here are several both with and without shoulder straps

When worn on the belt without the shoulder strap, was there an additional belt or something to interface the holster with the standard waist belt, since the holster straps are also horizontal?

I am not sure that I understand your question. I believe that those men wearing LP08 outfits without using the shoulder strap have run their equipment belt between the upper keeper strap of the rig and the stock.

This photo shows an infantryman wearing the stock/holster on his belt and he has wrapped the shoulder strap around the rig.

According German military orders it wasn´t allowed to wear or use the LP08 without the straps!

The 3. picture seems to show an unusual 3 magazine pouch!

And the 4. is showing a LP08 holster which I can´t identify.

Is it possible to see some closeup photos?

Best regards and thanks for sharing.

Klaus, here are some close up photos.

Klaus, I think you have seen this before. It holds three matching magazines.

George, wonderful photos and a rare mag pouch- this one, yours is the only one I know to exist.
Thanks a lot for the photos and sharing with us!!!
Best to you Klaus

Klaus,
The George collection of Luger Artillery pictures is really nice.

I have some nice items as well.

Please visit my web site and click on "historical pictures".

Let me know...

Cheers,
Mauro

Hi George,

What I meant was that not all the photos show a complete rig being worn. The second studio photo, for example, shows holster only being worn on the belt. No stock or keepers present.
My question is how did they wear the holster only on a belt if the loops on the back were parrallel to the waist belt.

Doug, My question is how did they wear the holster only on a belt if the loops on the back were parrallel to the waist belt.

The "loops on the back" I believe you are referring to is the stock strap attaching block. On an Artillery holster it does indeed run parrellel to a waist belt.
The German solution to retaining this block for future attachment to a stock and wearing the holster on a belt was to slip a couple of 3 inch straps into either side of the block, attaching them at their ends to themselves with a stock strap stud. This simple apparatus enables a belt to be threaded thru them and carried in the regular fashion. This does not allow for the stock to be used though.
George explained above that the stock and holster could be carried by threading the belt thru the stock & holster, using the top stock strap as a keeper.

Jery Burney

Thanks, Jerry!

That makes it clear.

Have any originals of these additional studded loops survived?

Doug, I have seen originals but it's my belief that since they were removeable they were often removed and discarded. I patterned my loops from a client who had them on a holster he sent to me. They are quite simple actually. An ingenious solution for belt carry of the Artillery holster.

Jerry Burney

Hi Mauro,
I visited your side several times. You offer great informations and photos of the nicest collections, yours included.
I have only a photo which may be of interest for you.
Have you ever seen another pouch for 3 mags?
I´m not able to identify the LP08 holster on George´s 4. photo.
I picked up several hundreds of holsters during the years and there were some LP08 holsters but I never saw one like this on the photo.
Best regards and thanks for sharing your side!
Klaus
If you need a better copy of the photo let me know (grafschaft@gmx.de)

Mauro,
I looked at my archive and found some documents which may be of interest for you and other collectors, too.
On some old photos we see a soldier armed with a LP08 and 3 (!) mag pouches.
Handwritten sentences on the two attached documents point to using 3 mag pouches with each LP08. So there must be 7 magazines with each LP08 for a short (early) time. Later two or in some cases only one double mag pouch were used with the LP08. So the LP08 came with 5 or only 3 magazines “in later days”.

During the years I picked up many mag pouches. In some cases were clips with underlined T acceptance marks inside. Some years ago, when the new gun law was introduced into U.K., I met an English collector who wanted to sell a 1917 dated Luger rig. In the mag- pouch were clips with the acceptance mark as on the photo. I observed this several times. It seems that from 1917 on the spare clips for the long Luger came with the C/T underline instead of the serial numbers.

I know that my English is not the best but hope you will understand what I mean.

Regards Klaus

Great info and pics! I'll get me an artillery one day . . .

- WOT

Hello Klaus,
Thank you so much for sharing the picture. I have already some copies of the picture you presented. I know as well a collector that has the (or one of the) original(s). I like this picture mainly because of the TM08 and related pouch.

Concerning the Holsters, if I am not wrong they seem to me 1915 Eugen Huber holsters, usually additionally marked AWM/1/15.

If you look at my web site, the current last picture in the "historical picture area" is showing the same holster; there is also a photo of a rig based on this holster.

I have in my collection a couple of pictures of Artillery soldiers with three magazine pouches. Your find in the archive is really interesting.

The George magazine pouch is really rare! It is the only specimen I have seen up to now.

Thank you for sharing.

Ciao,
Mauro

Mauro,

I am not sure they are AWM 15 holsters. ok, they seem to have the inside cleaning rod pouch, but the sides of the flap are not fixed in the same way as AWM/ Eugen Huber holsters: look at the pix (from Bender's book) and one of my holsters. The flaps and the shape of the flap sides of these holsters, on the 4th photo of George, are very strange.
Also, these 3 holsters are curiously all made for belt use...

Mmm! Hard to say, they are similar but, as I have written, I am not completely sure too.

In my picture the characteristic shape of this holster is more visible to me...
Attachment 9751
Attachment 9752

I also had AWM LP08 holsters but the holsters on the photo are not these. I think they are made of smooth leather and!

Mauro, the characteristics of the AWM are well known, this is not the problem. I just say that these 3 holsters do not have the characteristics of the AWM. Have a look at the close up photo below, don't you see something strange with the side of the flap ? and, once again, they are strangely all made for belt use.

The holsters are not AWM. They may very well be studio props supplied by the photographer.

George, - studio props- I think you got a hit.

Yaa guys, I am getting old,
The flap is definitely different from the Eugen Huber. The pin seems missing.

What it is bad now is that I have to find at list one to complete my holster collection! :rolleyes:

Here is a scan of the belt carry straps Jerry mentioned.

Mike, YUP! Those are them...

Jerry Burney

Where these straps marked in any way??

What is the best means for determining originality, as they seem to be an easy item to knock off convincingly?

Doug,

Look also at these photos. The first one is the back of a LP08 1914 dated holster.
On the second and third photos, you can see how the holster can be hung directly at the belt with its board stock: the flap of the holster (attached on the board stock) wraps round the belt (hope it's the correct english word).
christian

Where these straps marked in any way??

What is the best means for determining originality, as they seem to be an easy item to knock off convincingly?

These are not marked. They were an expedient item, likely field made. They would have used the two shoulder strap adjustment studs for a pair of these. Finding an accurate couple of these studs is a tad difficult. Crap repro's are everywhere but good studs...originals are impossible. I had a few made up in steel awhile back but they are quite expensive. I use them on Artillery shoulder straps I make.

Jerry Burney

Thanks for the help, guys. I got it figured out, the straps were all in a tangle and I had to re-group.
I really have enjoyed the WWI pics you all have posted.

Derek

Christian´s (2.) photo is showing how the LP08 holster/stock combi was to use: straps over the left shoulder and the leather of the stock attached with the belt (on the right hip) (die Pistolentasche wird am Trageriemen über die linke Schulter getragen und mit dem Deckelriemen am Koppel befestigt). It´s No. 3 of the 5.5.1914 dated "letter" of the Kriegsministerium which is shown here as a copy.