Help!! Please identify this long barrel luger
 

I hope I am placing this post in the correct forum, as a collected indicated to me that this is a military luger, not commercial. I recently acquired a long barrel luger. All the numbers match except for the hold open latch and the firing pin. German or Made in Germany is NOT present on the barrel or frame.
I purchased it under the idea that the long barrel was a custom add-on. After purchase, I cleaned it up and see three interesting things on this barrel. First, the sight base is the correct height for a German production barrel, second is the proof stamp found on the front of the sight base and lastly, there is a witness mark on the barrel right next to the frame. I took some pictures here and a closeup of the slide serial number. From what I can tell, the 2's look like a double strike, not an overstrike of some other numbers. Could anyone tell me what the proof on the sight ramp means? Is this an all German gun? Is the double stamp of the slide serial number original? If so, what would an estimated value be? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in Advance,
Mark

Pinocchio 's Luger??? Ned Buntline's Luger???

That is one long nosed Luger... :D

It was years ago, but I remember seeing a long- barreled Luger like this . Don't remember if it was in a magazine or on-line. I just thought it was some sort of novelty. I would be interested in seeing what the experts have to say.

Wish the unit mark was on an unmolested luger.

"Wish the unit mark was on an unmolested luger."

John,

Me too! It's a scarce Reichswehr marking. Only the second or third Minenwerfer unit mark I've seen. The Luger is probably a Pacific Arms special assembled in the 50's. The front sight base is from a '98 Mauser, and has been silver soldered on a fabricated barrel.

Ron

Just as Ron says, its a normal luger with a long barrel.

These actually don't uusally carry a big premium to a lot of folks, although I like them.


Buy a 2nd top half that is a 4 or 6 inch and make it very versatile :)


Ed

Regarding the front sight, this one is an exact match of the long barrels listed in "Lugers at Random". In addition, this barrel also has an index (witness) mark on the underside which, according to a source, is only found on original German barrels. If this is the case, could this be an original installed barrel from say a 1923 Commercial production? The serial number of this gun falls perfectly within the 1923 Commercial production numbers.

Mark,

This Luger was made up from a Reichswehr Army Luger procured from a run of commercial Lugers sometime after 1921 thru 1934. Probably early in the 20's.

The unit mark on the front grip strap is for the Minenwerfer Abteilung (Mortar detachment) of the 17th Infantry Regt. It would have remained in the Army inventory through WWII, as issued, with a 4" barrel.

Not to contradict, but the front sight base isn't the same. The back bevel/angle of the base should be in line with the rear angle of the blade, and it's not. The only exception would be a Luger Carbine sight, which is a totally different design. The index mark would or could have been put there by any gunsmith who wanted the barrel to index to the proper headspace when removed for whatever reason and replaced.

Pacific Arms altered hundreds of Lugers in the 50's. These with exceptionally long barrels were among their trademark Lugers.

Ron

markbritt, you ask a reasonable question then dispute the answer given you by a knowledgeable collector (Ron Smith). What's your problem?

Heavily wishing something is original and correct simply won't make it so........

I would just enjoy the Luger for what it is - a made up shooter. If you don't like the long barrel it can always be replaced with a 4" barrel thats readily available.

Charlie

Also, there are collectors who like the long barrel Pacific Arms rebuilds. I've seen them listed on various sites for pretty high prices.

Mark, If your barrel was a Pacific Arms or Stoeger replacement "long barrel", which were available in 7.65 or 9mmm from 8 to 22 inches long, it would have a front sight that was not silver sodered on and a tangent rear sight (LPO8 type) on the rear of the barrel. TH

Original or not, Pacific Arms or not, it's an eye catcher to a newbie like me. Would be interesting to see the "carry concealed" holster for this one... :-) Enjoy it, Mark!

Gentlemen:

I wish to thank you all for the information on this particular gun. Regarding Mr. Andersons comment - I am relatively new to this level of Luger identification. All I have is Lugers at Random and a few other currently produced Luger books - and this one is not mentioned in any other than Lugers at Random. When I acquired this luger, I sent the exact pictures to a noted collector on the East Coast. After reviewing and a phone discussion, he indicated that it looked original and would be worth 10-12K. Now, there is a huge difference between his estimation and the above 800-1500 price range. As a relatively new member to the Luger field, I find it a sin that most of the detailed books (by Mr. Sill) are themselves collectors items (500+ on ebay) so that knowledge is unavailable to the average collector. Has there been any talk of reissuing Mr Sill's books either as updated editions and/or electronic? That would be a boon for the average guy. Thank you all for all the info you have provided and, if anything else is found, please post it.

Mark

Mark,

This noted collector that you mention has misinformed you. Look carefully at the characteristics of the metal preparation of your Luger.

Note the softened edges of the side plate and the front of the trigger guard. Also note the fine striations/scratches in the metal surfaces. These are indications of the use of either a wire wheel or course sandpaper, or both. These are not found on a factory finished Luger.

The metal should be satin smooth, and all edges should be crisp and sharp. The blue shows minimal wear, which is highly unusual for a pistol that is 75+ years old.

The small parts, trigger, saftey lever, take down lever are blued. The first production Lugers with blued small parts weren't produced until the Spring of 1937. They would be "Strawed" (gold tinted) on a pre 1937 production Luger.

The unit mark, as I said is a Reichswehr Army unit mark. The Army never issued or used long barreled pistols, outside of the Artillery Luger which has an 8" barrel, and were produced from 1914 thru 1918. Sometimes the hard facts are disappointing, but they are the facts.

As for Jan Still's books. They are highly prized and sought after, which in turn promotes the high prices. Much of the content of those books was provided by collectors who are members of this forum, and Jan Still's Central Powers Pistols forum.

Tuition to Luger U. can be very expensive. We have all learned costly lessons, and have learned from them. We would be doing you further dis-service by perpetuating this pistol's authenticity.

Ron

If it would have been issued by the Army, the barrel would have a military firing proof on it. Long barreled Lugers sold commercially usually have C/N proofed barrels (installed in the states). The barrel would be numbered to the gun if it were installed by the factory.

Are long barrels like this intended to be used with a stock? I can't imagine aiming it without a stock, especially after a few cups of coffee.

In the US, the only Lugers that can legally have attached are the LP08 Artillery model and the Navy model. Stocks can also be legally used with Lugers that have barrels of 16 inches or more. The long barreled pistols are amazingly accurate using the stock.

Charlie

A local dealer carries one. He asks $10,000 for it, probably it arrived him expansive. So, it stays there year after year. In my first year of Luger, that particular one gave me a wrong impression -- Luger's price is a function of it's barrel length.

This is a very interesting gun (except for the barrel). 5-digit commercial Lugers are seldom found with Reichswehr unit marks. It would be useful to see a closeup picture of the proof mark on the left side of the breechblock, as well as any proofs on the right side of the receiver. Is there a date stamped on the receiver top?

--Dwight

Sorry for the delay
 

Dwight:

The date stamp at the top is 1921. There are a couple of faint stamps on the right side, will try to get a pic up here soon.