Borchardt w/o reserve on Gunbroker
 

FYI

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=141724411

Wow...That's almost a battlefield pickup... :roflmao:

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/1417240...1901784968.jpg

Only Thor could love a Borchardt like that... :p

"Original Luger design"??? Cart before horse!!!...

Did you look at his No-Longer-A-Broomhandle??? :D

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/1416570...1822939046.jpg

I'm happy to say that I have no idea where that grip came from...

Browsing is free.

Just saw a rare "杉浦式" (Sugiura) Pistol on GB. Enjoy.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=141957961

I would not be too ashamed to have that Borchart in my collection. John

The altered grip on the C96 looks an awful lot like it comes from a Browming 1917 machinegun.

I would gladly take it too...

:biggulp:

Some one should pickup the Borchardt and have Ted restore it. I would be a Wonderful piece

My opinion here is it is a pistol of historical signifigance. One where rarity exceeds condition. I once passed on a 1925 Simpson that looked much the same(sorry Ed) I wish now that I recorded the ser#. Would not suprise me if it looks much better today than then. John

yes, one reason i hate to see them "restored"......

Sure are a lot of very nice 70-90 yr old lugers at shows....

Just being rare is not enough. If it's rare and people care it's rare, then it's a star.

Love GB, it's gun show everyday. Waiting for the last 15 minutes?

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No comments on that Sugiura?

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[Edit] Rarity and condition are not conflicting -- one is X and another one is Y in C&R Cartesian plane, independent to each other. A particular gun is a dot on the plane.

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[Edit 2] Ironically, low production was usually associated with something negative, e.g., low production capacity, low demand, never pass trial phase, immature design etc, etc. So, although I like them, I have been unable to answer this question to myself -- should I give my credit to the low performer? A successful pistol need volume. It's still a puzzle in my mind.

I thought it was a dead ringer for the Colt 1903 pocket pistol, which was 32 ACP...This says 7.65mm, but does not say if straight or bottleneck cartridge...

I have never heard of this pistol, but it looks like it could be unique for a collector...

Chinese do not seem to have made many original designs, preferring to copy other successful configurations instead...

OK. Postie did not know "Sugiura". It's supposed being a famous name in Japanese C&R world. I have a copy of the book that seller mentioned in the advertisement and saw it there. It's considered being a Japanese WWII pistol, but made in China, just like cyq P38 made in Czech is still a German gun :)

Thank goodness for folks like you Alvin ( where are the rest of the chipmunks these days?) for if it wasn't for guys like you that have your collecting Cartesian coordinates set to (∞,∞) the rest of us wouldn't get to acquire some great pieces. As you tangentially approach the desired pieces the rest of us can clean up...

And "Ironically, low production was usually associated with something negative, " according to.... who? Is this a general statement or specific to firearms? I'm assuming it is "aimed"
at firearms in particular as it is the subject at hand but it is not a insightful statement for commodities at large. Again I give thanks for folks who believe that....


Jerry

Welcome to LugerForums, Jerry!!! Glad to see that you made the jump over here, too!!! :D

Sometimes, I could have a little bit insight by myself :)

Here is the thinking path. There are two types of rarities. Historical great guns (e.g. Para, Mauser, Browning, Walther, etc.... even Tokarev) have something in common: they were made across decades, they have some variations, they have production volumes, etc. Some variations in the big family are rare today because it's a development stage in its lifespan.

But rarity could come from another direction. Above Sugiura is a typical example, no before and no after, not sure why the production volume was so low, highly unlikey coming from some positive factors. Not saying it's not interesting at all, but definitely this rarity is another type.

To the extreme, here is another example in the cyberspace gunshow:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=142039741

I look at that one and immediately wonder: Why copy features of Mauser M1896 on grips & hammer??? Is the designer trying to invoke warm memories of Mauser broomhandle to his pistol??? Or did he just like those features???

From very low overhang of rear grip frame, I wonder if this pistol shoots very low??? (Or do you have to hold it over your head to shoot it???) :D

Mauser's impact on early Soviet Union pistol, say Tokarev, was obvious, from caliber to lock frame. But regarding this particular one-of-a-kind, I have no idea.

No idea?!?!? :eek:

Broomhandle influence is obvious!!! :banghead:

Tokarev has no Broomhandle influence!!! It is all Browning!!!

Postie, please read between lines, not just by appearance.

The first gun that I played was a Tokarev (clone) when I was 5. Adult unloaded the gun, and I played the super heavy one in yard. When I saw Broom, I was 7 or 8. A kid older than me stole his father's Bolo wrapping it in quilt and shot one round to the ground in his home. Although I cannot remember much, I cannot forget those two after I grew up.

See my avatar? I am supposed to be the kid on the left :)

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The 1st time seeing P38 was from Yugoslavian movie. Tito's partisan, Gestapo, and Crotian police shot each other with it. First time seeing a Borchardt was in a museum.... the list goes on and on.

Luger is booming on SimpsonLtd.com. Guns and accessories.

Hope one day Broom could flourish as well. Too few choices on the market. Same items list forever. Viewers are tired of those. Need more so we can look. Current situation is too boring.

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Also, please list on GB if possible. No reason to put the $$ that you should make into dealer's pocket.

Well.I see the auction for the Borchardt pistol ended.
Sad to say it was a good deal and I still couldn't afford it!
Was the lucky winner on this forum?

I remember looking at one of those guns back in the 70's and I had no idea what it was. My local long time gun store owner had it. It was from the proverbial WW2 vet widow and she just wanted to get rid of it. You know he paid literally pennies for it.
It was pristine and was equipped with the stock and the cheek piece. He kept it behind the counter in a gun sock. Since he was fixing my C96 at the time,he figured I might be interested in it. I never asked what he would sell it for,as the ammo was unobtainable.In those days I wouldn't even consider buying a gun that I couldn't shoot.:rolleyes:
He passed on about 10 years ago and everything in his shop was auctioned off. I found out about this a few months after the fact. I have always wondered what happened to that Borchardt pistol!:confused:

Probably alvin... :rolleyes:

36 bids...$9,025.01...Nope, it definitely wasn't me... :D

Not me. I am stubborn. I don't buy guns under 80%, regardless how rare it is, or how good the price is. Also, $9k.... is quite amount of $$ in Madagascar.

Thanks!

I've been here a while actually; I just don't write much as I don't have much substantive content to add. I own a few P08s; but nothing to write home about. I've been hoping with sinking heart that the C96 forum would be rescued. It's a shame to me to see it fail so miserably.

Also I've been involved with my number 1 hobby up to the hat band which is fairly well consuming whatever uncommitted time I have....

Jerry

Maybe we should start a new C-96 forum . . . :)

I was tempted to bid on the Borchardt . . . but the timing just is bad right now. Ncie to see one for sale.

- WOT

Quite a few Borchardts survived. Probably because it's a commercial gun. The hard part is finding an appropriate one -- shape and cost in consideration.

Now is hard time for me as well. I will try to focus on Mauser Pocket. Common variations are much more affordable, $200-$800, no Nazi stamp please, I cannot pay extra $1k for a stamp. Next target is a regular 1910, then, a sidelatch, then, I don't know..... it's super hard to find an appropriate humpback (only see an expansive one on collectorsfirearms.net, and another crazy one on GB so far)

Here is one I was interested in...Stamped DRPuAP, so probably no nazi stamps...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=143969782

Black Bakelite (?) grips...Look very nice... :)

All 1934 that I've seen so far have D.R.P.u.A.P.

Back a few years ago, I also care about less seen grip, etc (e.g. those fancy grips on prewar C96). And gradually, my view changed and I seldomly consider that anymore, or willing to pay a lot on those alone -- grip panel alone is not another variation. So wood or plastic make no difference (if any) to me now as long as they are factory original. Of course that's subjective. I would think this gun having original grip but please note the grip of this gun has a big chip on the right hand side.