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sls11650 09-17-2009 03:36 PM

Lanyard info
 
Could someone provide the necessary info needed to make a reasonable reproduction of a Luger lanyard? Maybe even a photo of both ends?

It would be much appreciated.

Ron Wood 09-17-2009 03:39 PM

Jerry Burney (lugerholsterrepair) makes an exact reproduction.

Gibcity 09-17-2009 03:53 PM

Jerry,

Can you post a picture of one and tell us what you charge?

Wayne

ken d 09-17-2009 04:42 PM

Gib:
See ebay item
http://cgi.ebay.com/Reproduction-Lug...d=p3286.c0.m14

Ken D

lugerholsterrepair 09-17-2009 05:16 PM

This THING on Ebay is a horrible abomination. It's as if the fellow saw an original Luger lanyard while wearing beer glasses and cobbled it together from what he remembered after a hard drunk. I see the first copy of this tangled mess sold for 50 bucks. I didn't know whether to laugh or puke.
My lanyards are as close to originals as you are likely to get. I currently have just 2 in stock. I only make a dozen or so a year. $105.00 shipped.
I am sure if you search on this site for lanyards many photo's will appear.

Jerry Burney

Ice 09-17-2009 06:02 PM

I have a heavy brass swivel like the one in the photo on my dog lead. I've seen some pretty doggy Lugers but even they don't deserve crap like that.

Charlie

cirelaw 09-17-2009 06:56 PM

I own one of Jerry's. Those whom I showed, swore it was an original. Another piece or "Jerry Genius"

Gibcity 09-17-2009 06:59 PM

Jerry,

PM sent - I'll take one!

Wayne

calibrator 09-17-2009 08:49 PM

Mr. Roscoe at CMR offers repros for $35 US. He is located in the U.K. however. He offers a nice 'REPRO" Arty leather set-up also. I have both of these items and am happy with them. Nice guy to deal with via E-mail ( you get prompt answers ). I think he is a member of this forum also?? Just my $.02. Joe:cheers:

lugerholsterrepair 09-17-2009 10:06 PM

Joe, Yes..you are correct on at least one count. CMR does offer a reproduction Luger Lanyard. The pakistani fellow who makes them has a pair of beer goggles too.

There is a great deal of difference in Pakistani reproduction Luger items and original German made items. Some people can appreciate that difference. Some just don't care. That's what keeps CMR in business.

I strive to take the time and trouble to accurately research and produce my pieces as close as humanly possible to original made period pieces. This takes a huge amount of time, patience, research and hard work. I like to think I provide advanced collectors with a good choice between cheap reproductions and originals at a fair price.

Those who are happy with cheap inaccurate reproductions that are but a facsimily of what they are supposed to be....are welcome to them. This is what makes the World go round.

Jerry Burney

sls11650 09-17-2009 10:46 PM

And I'll have the other please.

PM sent

Steve S.

lugerholsterrepair 09-17-2009 10:53 PM

Steve, You can send $105 to my address seen in my posts. If you would like to PayPal send $110 to magicbelle@earthlink.net

Thanks to both Steve and Wayne for your patronage. Wayne..your lanyard is in tomorrows US mail Priority.

Jerry Burney
0636 Scenic Lane
Howard, CO 81233

John Sabato 09-18-2009 10:02 AM

Thanks to Jerry for educating the forum on Pakistani reproduction lanyard quality, and to Calibrator for letting the forum know that members have an alternative to the best... but having seen a lanyard produced by Jerry, and the one on ebay... they have alternatives, but really only one choice...

cirelaw 09-18-2009 10:38 AM

When You Own The Best
 
1 Attachment(s)
Who needs the rest!

ken d 09-18-2009 10:42 AM

Jerry:

In my reference to the one on Ebay, I was showing an option of whats outthere to Wayne.
I agree with your assessment of the poor quality of the Ebay item. I have one of your
Lanyards' purchased a year ago, and highly recommend it.

Regards

Ken D

calibrator 09-18-2009 11:45 AM

This is the only image I have on hand of the CMR lanyard. And the opportunity to show off my "Shooter" Arty with original late model TM08. Best Regards!! Joe

lugerholsterrepair 09-18-2009 03:54 PM

Alf, I couldn't get a private message to send.


Alf..Looks like Priority mail to Malta would be $13. Regular mail would be $8.00 first class. Let me know how you would likeyour lanyard sent.

Pay Pal is fine...

$105+13.00=$118

$105+8.00=$113

PP is magicbelle@earthlink.net

Thanks, Jerry

A.Mifsin 09-19-2009 02:52 AM

Ok Jerry I will send you the money by PayPal.
Alf.

klaus 3338 09-19-2009 02:31 PM

4 Attachment(s)
German documents describe the lanyard with a spring-hook and late Third Reich documents show and describe the P38 lanyard wich was also used with the P08. Bavaria got and used a very special lanyard during the great war.
This one with the leather attatching was used with the byf 42 of Portugal.

lugerholsterrepair 09-19-2009 03:18 PM

Klaus, Many thanks for this information. German documents describe the lanyard with a spring-hook. While this may be so...many top collections in Europe are full of the leather tab type. G. Machtelinckx of Belgium was kind enough to assist me in the late 90's by traveling accross Europe... dropping in on very important and extensive collections on his way to photograph the German Luger lanyards found in those collections. Almost exclusively the many photo's he provided are of the leather tab type.
I do have a spring type in my collection. These are vastly inferior to the leather tab type with the brass swivel. Cheaply made with unblued steel and usually rusted to hell.
As an aside..I wrote to Reinhard Kornmayer in 1998 and he was kind enough to write up what he knew about Luger lanyards. He had the opposite of your opinion..that Portugese lanyards were of the spring hook type. He was kind enough to send me an example as a gift for which I well be forever grateful. He also sent me his archive of German Soldiers wearing lanyards.
If you have any information of a diffinitave nature that would positively identify the leather tab type lanyard as Portugese I would dearly love to see it. I have researched German Luger Lanyards now for 20 years and have NEVER been able to pin down the Portugese lanyard.
All I have ever heard is second hand rumors of the leather tab type coming back into the US with Portugese Lugers and the lerned opinion of Reinhard..
Lastly...If I were to produce the spring hook lanyards for sale... I could not give them away. They would horribly mar the finish on any Luger one was crazy enough to attach them to.

Klaus, Viele Dank für diese Informationen. Deutsche Dokumente beschreiben die Kordel mit einem Federhaken. Während dies so sein darf. ..many oberste Sammlungen in Europa sind voll von der Lederlasche. G. Machtelinckx von Belgien war gütig genug, mir in des spät 90's durch Reisen von accross Europa zu helfen... schauend bei sehr wichtigen und umfangreichen Sammlungen auf seinem Weg herein, die deutschen Luger Kordeln zu fotografieren, die in den Sammlungen gefunden werden. Fast ausschließlich hat des vieles Fotos er sind von der Lederlasche versorgt. Ich habe eine Feder in meiner Sammlung. Diese sind erheblich minderwertig zur Lederlasche mit dem Messingdrehgelenk. Billig gemacht mit unblued stählern und gewöhnlich gerostet zu Hölle. Als ein beiseite.. ich an Reinhard Kornmayer in 1998 geschrieben habe, und er war gütig genug, nach oben zu schreiben, was er um Luger Kordeln gekannt hat. Er hat das Gegenteil von Ihrer Meinung gehabt.., dass Portugese Kordeln vom Federhaken waren. Er war gütig genug, mir ein Beispiel zu schicken, als ein Geschenk für das ich gut bin für immer dankbar. Er hat auch mir sein Archiv deutscher Soldaten tragend Kordeln geschickt. Wenn Sie irgendeine Informationen von einer diffinitave Natur haben, die positiv die Lederlaschenkordel identifizieren würde, als Portugese ich lieb es sehen möchte. Ich habe Deutsch Luger Kordeln jetzt für 20 Jahre geforscht und habe NIE die Portugese Kordel festlegen können. Alles, das ich je gehört habe, ist Sekundenzeigergerüchte von der Lederlasche zurückkommend in die USA mit Portugese Lugers und der lerned Meinung von Reinhard. Zuletzt. ..if ich sollte herstellen den Federhakenkordeln zum Verkauf... Ich könnte sie nicht weggeben. Sie würden schrecklich das Ende auf irgendeinem Luger einer war verrückt genug beschädigen, sie zu zu befestigen.

Vlim 09-19-2009 04:10 PM

Jerry,

I believe that the pistols that used the spring clip type of lanyard, simply had an attaching ring on the pistol. I remember seeing an image of a Portuguese luger in one of the US surplus gun sellers ads, showing a lanyard ring in situ. Have to dig up that one :)

The Dutch navy lanyards, as discussed earlier, also have the spring clip design.

Gibcity 09-21-2009 09:16 PM

Jerry,

Received the lanyard today and I have to tell you and everybody it is much more a work of art than a reproduction lanyard.

Thank you so very much,
Wayne

sls11650 09-24-2009 11:11 AM

Got my lanyard this morning.

WOW!!

I had assumed it would be accurate but it also even looks vintage. Very impressed with overall look and quality.

Thank you Jerry.

Steve S.

lugerholsterrepair 09-24-2009 12:15 PM

Wayne, Steve..Many thanks, glad you like them. Every leather and brass part on them is hand made by me from the half dozen originals in my collection .

I only make a few a year as it takes me 10 days or better to make a dozen of them.

I appreciate your patronage.


Jerry Burney

Edward Tinker 09-24-2009 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair (Post 165044)
...
Lastly...If I were to produce the spring hook lanyards for sale... I could not give them away. They would horribly mar the finish on any Luger one was crazy enough to attach them to.

.

Jerry, I wonder if this is the difference in either collecting or what worked best? What I mean is that the US army lanyard has a "clip" on the end, and as a soldier, you don't care if you mar the finish; not really :o


ed

calibrator 09-25-2009 11:07 AM

The 1911A1 main spring housing has a lanyard loop that was made for a "Clip " style lanyard attachment. The P08 seems to have been designed for " Strap" from the onset. A man would use his pistol as a hammer if he needed to, it was just a G.I. tool. Combat pistols need a lanyard attachment. Since I currently work for a man that restores Mercedes Benz 300 SLs from then early 50's, I understand one reason why the Germans lost WW II. Their approach to a design idea is often over engineered (artistically indeed) and needs many special or modified tools to do even simple maintenance.

SleazyRider 10-07-2009 09:15 PM

Would I be sidetracking this thread too much if I asked exactly how a lanyard is worn and used? Does it steady the weapon like a shooting sling? Or does it simply prevent one from dropping the gun during use?

lugerholsterrepair 10-08-2009 12:24 AM

Joe, A good point I hadn't thought of.

Jim, The two types of lanyard I think there were was the Cavalry which was longer..worn over the opposite shoulder from the pistol was primarily used to prevent loss of the pistol while on a galloping horse. Sam on the German motorcycle.
The other was the shorter Stosstrup type..worn around the neck hanging about waist height. These were employed by front line Stosstrup troops who went on raiding parties. Again, I believe used to prevent loss at night in the muddy trenches.
I have used the lanyards I make for steadying the pistol while on the range but I don't believe this was any military advantage. The Luger in the Military setting was a defensive weapon and not a target pistol per-se.
The real advantage to the lanyard is in prevention of loss. Loss would be very inconvenient to either the Cavalryman or a front line raider who needs both hands for other tasks from time to time!

Jerry Burney

klaus 3338 10-24-2009 09:53 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Lieber Jerry,
die Hirschbrunft ist nun leider vorbei- das gibt mir aber auch Zeit, hinsichtlich der Fangriemen nochmals kurz Stellung zu nehmen.

Nun kann ich mich nicht mit verdienten Leuten wie Görtz, Kornmayer oder Reckendorf auf eine Stufe stellen und deswegen hier auch nur als Bestandsaufnahme die wenigen Hinweise in deutschen Archivalien hinsichtlich der unterschiedlichen Fangriemen zusammenfassen.
Vorab aber noch eine kurze Stellungnahme zu der von Ihnen vertretenen Meinung.
Ich brauche hier nicht zu beweisen, was ich weiß. Ob die Fangriemen mit Karabinerhaken wegen der Möglichkeit des Rostens von mangelhafter Qualität sind, mag nun jeder für sich selbst entscheiden. Ihre Entscheidung, aus diesem Grund die portugiesischen Fangriemen mit der Lederlasche zu fertigen mag unter dem Aspekt des Verkratzens der Fangriemenvorrichtung an Sammlerwaffen auch durchaus eine Betrachtung wert sein, unter Berücksichtigung des ernsthaften Sammlers verliert diese Frage aber an Bedeutung. Hier muss sich aber jeder Sammler ein eigenes Bild machen. Ich vertrete hier, wie auch seinerzeit Joachim Görtz in seinem Buch die Pistole 08 die von ihm auf Seite 106/ 107 vertretene Feststellung: Die Tasche und der Pistolengurt (Fangriemen) entstammen allerdings portugiesischer Fertigung.
Leider setzten sich einmal falsch veröffentliche Meldungen über Jahre hinweg durch: Ritzmann Griffschalen bei Krieghoff P08 statt Römmler, oder S.D…. interpretiert als Sicherheitsdienst statt Schutzpolizei Düsseldorf usw..

Nun zu den zugegebenermaßen dürftigen Archivalien hinsichtlich der Fangriemen.
Mit der Veröffentlichung in den Allgemeinen Heeresmitteilungen vom 22. November 1935 gibt der Oberbefehlshaber des Heeres die Ausstattung des Pistolengurtes (Fangriemen) für die mit der P08 ausgestatteten Berittenen bekannt. Neben der Begründung und Handhabung desselben wird ausdrücklich erwähnt, dass der KARABINERHAKEN in jedem Fall an der Pistole zu belassen ist, um den Verlust des Fangriemens auszuschließen.

Mit einer weiteren Veröffentlichung am 7. Mai 1940 wird neben der Pistole 38 der Pistolengurt eingeführt und beschrieben. Auch hier: der KARABINERHAKEN wird durch eine Schnalle ersetzt, die gegenüber dem KARABINERHAKEN größere Sicherheit gegen das Verlieren der Pistole bietet.

Deutlicher kann ich es nicht machen- alles andere wäre Verdrehung der Tatsachen.

Ich würde mich freuen, wenn ich etwas zur Klärung der Fangriemenfrage beitragen konnte.

Herzliche Sammlergrüsse Klaus

lugerholsterrepair 10-24-2009 12:03 PM

Klaus, Many thanks for your thoughts on the lanyard for the P08 pistol.

There is so little photographic evidence of the use of the lanyard after WW1... documents concerning it from as late as 1940 are somewhat moot in my opinion. I have never observed an original photo from the WW2 era where a German Soldier is using any kind of issue P08 lanyard.

If anyone out there has any photo's of German Soldiers with lanyards of any kind for any pistol I would dearly love to see them!

I do have many photo's of Soldiers using a P08 lanyard from the WW1 era.

I also have an archive of other nationalities using lanyards..Most if not all are in the WW1 era or at least between wars.

In WW2 the popularity of the pistol lanyard seems to have plumeted. Perhaps it was because of the demise of the Cavalry.
Polish and Dutch show some use but very few actual photo's exist from what I can tell. With all the photo's taken of Soldiers it would seem that it was certainly not common to use the P08 or the P-38 lanyard after WW1.

At any rate..a fascinating subject for me and I appreciate your input.

Jerry Burney

lfid 09-05-2010 01:44 AM

Jerry,

are you still looking for pictures of a lanyard for the 42 byf Portuguese Luger ?

I think I have one that is authentic

Bill

Vlim 09-05-2010 07:03 AM

7 Attachment(s)
Well,

It seems that so far 3 different variations of Portuguese lanyards have been identified.

The first type is the one that Jerry has faithfully reproduced (short leather tab and 2 leather sliders).

The second type has a slightly longer leather tab and uses leather sliders that are made from punched through flat pieces of leather. These pieces cannot be removed from the sling and easily break. Many have probably been replaced in Portugal by the tan colored leather sliders of the first type.

The third type has the bayonet hook connector, which is fastend to the pistol by using a separate lanyard ring: the ring is attached to the pistol's lanyard loop and the lanyard's bayonet hook attaches to the ring.

Tan leather usually seems to indicate a repair. I have studied quite a lot of Portuguese holsters and have a couple of Portuguese lanyards here. The tan color of the sliders matches that of period repairs on one of the holsters perfectly. It also shows that a repaired, beat up old holster can sometimes be of more use than a minty one :)

Photos from top to bottom:

Type 2 of the Portuguese Lanyard:
-Longer tab.
-Tigthly twisted loop ends.
-Flat leather tabs.

Close-up of the Type 2 tab.

Close-up of a Type 1 lanyard from Michael Reese's 1977 Guns & Ammo article.

Scan of Michael Reese's 1977 Guns & Ammo article.

Repaired M942 Portuguese Holster. Note the lighter repairs (loop, holster toe).

Frankionia Ad from the 1990s: Offering the M942 pistol with holster, magazine, tool, cleaning rod and lanyard loop (loop mentioned but not shown). Note the holster.

Scan of a Type 1 Portuguese lanyard loop.

Vlim 09-05-2010 07:50 AM

For our non-German speakers, here is a translation of Klaus' post:
(note that it is not a word-by-word translation)

Since the deer season is finished, there is some time to share some thoughts about the lanyards again.

I don't want to compare myself with experts like Görtz, Kornmayer and Reckendorf, so I will only share the few comments on German lanyards that have been found in German archives. Before I do this, my view on the opinions already given here. I don't feel a need to prove what I know. Whether the lanyards with the carbine hook are of a lesser quality because of their ability to rust is something that anyone may consider for himself. Your thoughts that the Portuguese lanyards were produced with leather attachments in order to prevent scratching the lanyard loop on collector pistols is worth considering, but I doubt that this factor was very important, also looking back at the opinions of the experts mentioned earlier. Every collector has to form his own opinion in this case. I will repeat here what Joachim Görtz said in his book 'Die Pistole 08' on page 106/107: "The holster and lanyard are of Portuguese manufacture".

It is a pity that some wrongfully published information starts living its own life during the years: Ritzmann grips on Krieghoffs instead of Römmler, or S.D. interpreted as Sicherheitsdienst instead of 'Schutzpolize Düsseldorf", etc…

Back to the very limited archive material about the lanyards:
The Commander of the Army orders the use of the lanyard for horse mounted troops with P08 pistols in the general army publications of the 22nd of November, 1935. Besides the reason and methods of use this order specifically mentions that the CARBINE HOOK is to be left attached to the pistol at all times in order to prevent the loss of the lanyard.

With another order of the 7th of May, 1940 the P38 as well as a lanyard for that pistol is introduced and described. Here again the CARBINE HOOK is replaced by a loop which, compared with the CARBINE HOOK, provides better protection against losing the pistol.

This is as clear as I can make it. Everything else would be twisting the truth.

I hope this has helped to answer some questions about the use of the lanyard loop.

lugerholsterrepair 09-05-2010 11:35 AM

Bill, Yes of course! I have studied Luger lanyards for 20 years now and am not about to quit when information comes my way! If you have any photo's please let me know where I can see them.

lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net

Vlim, Many thanks for your photo's and translation! These are very helpful.

Jerry Burney

lfid 09-05-2010 12:44 PM

Jerry,

I will take some photos and try my first forum picture posts into this thread
and add some info why I think it is likely non-fake

Vlim ,

thanks for sharing the in-depth info / pictures

Bill

Imperial Arms 11-17-2010 03:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)
There has been discussion regarding the limited use of lanyards in the German military, but why are the Bulgarians left out who probably used the lanyard more than any other army?

Albert

lugerholsterrepair 11-17-2010 03:40 PM

Albert, why are the Bulgarians left out ? Probably because there were so few Bulgarian Lugers compared with German.
Nothing intentional on my part..That is one GREAT photo! Is it possible I can capture it for my Lanyard archives?
I have been collecting lanyard photo's for 15 years..I have many German and Polish. I believe also some Bulgarian combat troops.

Thanks for posting this most excellent photograph! Very nice.

Jerry Burney

Ron Wood 11-17-2010 04:29 PM

Albert,
That is an outstanding photo! Thank you for sharing it.

paid4c4 11-17-2010 08:27 PM

Jerry from Luger Holster Repair
 
Please check your PM.
Thank You;
Bill

mr.109 01-07-2011 11:09 PM

This Luger laynard is now posted on ebay. Looks interesting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WWI-ORIGINAL-GER...item439edfd173


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