How can I get my money back?
 

On September 4, 2008, I contracted with Lugerman to build me a luger carbine. He promised to deliver in six to eight weeks. A friend ordered one several days after me. He just received his after almost nine month (35 week wait). I overnighted him $1495.00 on September 4, 2008 (that should have been a warning) as he wanted 1/2 deposit right away (going out of town). I have had repeated emails, and have received promise after promise, and I don't wish to continue with this man.

I realize that it will cost as much or more than my deposit to seek recovery, but I refuse to let this guy get away with fraud and theft of my money. I have documentation on everything. I need to know what steps in need to do to recover my money.

Eugene Golubstov (aka: Lugerman).
 

I'm in a similar situation with Eugene Golubstov (aka: Lugerman). I sent him a pistol 15 months ago and all I get is the run around. I'll be handing this matter over to my attorney after the 29th if I don't hear from him. We will be filling criminal charges against him and will be reporting him to the US Post Master General for Mail Fraud amongst other charges. I suggest you send him a registered letter spelling out that you intend on reporting him to the Fairless Hills Police Dept. and the BATF for fraud. Remind him that you have all records of correspondence and check receipts which you will also be handing over to the appropriate law enforcement agencies. He was audited 4 months ago and he doesn't want to have another visit from the BATF.

Postal Inspectors
 

Pistol Whipped:

Ten years ago, I had a problem with a "merchant" in Germany.

As he had used our mails to commit his fraud, I reported it to the Postal Inspectors, here, at the USPS. I had full documentation, and developed a detailed, and documented, outline of the fradulent events.

It took me some six months, but they pursued the case with the German equivalent of our FBI (Bundes Kriminal Ampt). I finally got my $2,000.00 back from the crook, and I bet he had to change his underware after the B.K.A. was done with him!!!

I'd call the United States Postal Inspectors in Washington, D.C. and get their input. Rather than spend a lot of your own money, let them do the ground work.

Believe me, when they show up at his door investigating Mail Fraud (a Federal Felony), you will get your money back right away!!!!!!!!

Sieger

We tend to think that whenever we have problems such as these that our only recourse is to hire an attorney. And that is an option; however, as Sieger has pointed out, there are other options which do not cost any money and are just as effective.

Junglejim - I am going to send you a private Email, since "Lugerman" may read this.

Mauser720 - Ron

My Mauser Brromhandle and Lugerman...
 

I've been holding off from posting anything regarding my issue with Lugerman (Eugene Golubstov) because I've been waiting to see his reaction once I threatened to cry havoc and slip the dogs of war. This is what has transpired since I posted my message here.

On June 1st I emailed Eugene Golubstov (aka: Lugerman) asking when the Mauser Broomhandle I sent him over a year ago would be ready. His reply was 4 weeks. To my disapointment he again failed to follow through. 4 weeks passed and nothing more was heard from him. As much as I did not want to it was time to move on to plan "B".

I handed the matter over to my lawyer. He sent two letters of intent (one certified mail, one regular mail) informing Mr. Golubstov that if my gun was not ready by August 1st all legal remedies would be pursued. Once I was certain he had received the letter of intent from my attorney I sent him an email of my own. I spelled out to him that I would report the gun as stolen and charge him with Larceny by Conversion and report him to the BATFE, the local police where he lives, the Pennsylvania Attorney General and since this transaction was made through the the US mail it would also qualify for mail fraud so the Post Master General would also be notified. And I would also sue him in small claims court in Pennsylvania. I had already made the arrangements for all this to happen, all that was needed from me was to make one phone call to my lawyer to start the ball rolling.

This time he got the message. For the next two weeks I received updates on the gun's progress. On August 1 he told me the gun was finished and sent me eight photographs of the finished product. I will now send him payment first thing Monday morning for $500 and then I will call my lawyer and let him know that we will not have to peruse the legal option after all, which was what I was hoping for all along. I never wanted to make trouble for the guy, I just wanted my property back.

But I have to be honest here, if the photos of my Mauser are accurate he has done a fantastic job. As soon as I figure out how to post the pictures here I'll put them up. But this situation now puts me at a bit of a conundrum. There are not too many guys out there doing this kind of resteration work, and If it wasn't for the fact that the guy strung me along for over a year I would use him again but my past experience makes me very reluctant to risk a similar one with him again.

It's obvious to me that Eugene Golubstov knows what he is doing and does fine work but the guy is just unreliable when it comes to communication and meeting deadlines. If he had told me from the very beginning that it would be a year before he could get to my pistol I would have been fine with that. Instead he dodged and obfuscated and in the end I had to play the heavy. I hated doing it but it worked.

So now I'm looking for someone who can restore a shooter Luger for me. I've heard terrific things about Thor and that he's accepting work again. Do any of you know if this is the case? If he is I would like to contact him and see if he would be able to do this for me.

Paul -

I hope things work out for you and he does a worthy job on your Mauser. Yes, please post pics here when you get it. :thumbup:

Update on my saga with "Lugerman"
 

After ultimatems and threats, he said on July 1st that he needed another 15 days to dry out the wood for my carbine. I contacted him again (email) on July 20th and asked where my gun was as it should have been shipped. He said he had just finished it, and sent me pictures of the gun, assuring me that it was pictures of my gun. He has test fired the gun, says it works just fine on white box Winchester ammo. He says he will send it as soon as my final payment arrives. Now I wait.

Pistol whipped, A good friend received his carbine from Lugerman, and it is very nice. I also have two other lugers that he had restored. I know the quality of his work. It is not as good as a John Martz luger, but for the price, it is good. Lugerman indicated to me that he has never not completed a firearm for anyone...........his only problem is delivery time. I only wish that instead of excuses and lies, that he would come clean and give more realistic delivery dates. We would suffer much less anguish. To promise 12 week delivery and take a year is unexcusable. Too much stress. My friend is still waiting for a baby luger and baby P-38. It has been almost a year for those too. Lugerman is currently advertising 5-6 months delivery. He is still way too optimistic on delivery. I think that he is more of a poor business man than a con man.
Anyway, that is my take on the matter.

My Completed Mauser Broomhandle...
 

Here are the photographs Lugerman sent me of my completed gun. I had asked for a complete restoration with new grips.

I've got to be honest, I'm impressed.

Paul -- How much did he charge for doing this job?

My Completed Mauser...
 

Lugerman charged me $500 for the restoration plus $25 for postage and insurance back to me.

He also made me wait a year and a half and often ignored my emails and consistently missed deadlines and fed me a steady diet of excuses…when he would reply to my emails. And you can just forget about ever getting him on the phone.

But the guy does quality work.

Sounds like he needs a manager ;)

It looks worth the money! I'm glad he didn't buff the snot out of it and destroy the edges, like some re-bluers do... ;)

Let's hope we both get more than nice pictures.
 

This is a picture of my carbine.

Here are pictures of some of my John Martz creations.
 

John Martz creates the finest custom guns that I have seen. I have several other of his pieces, and they are perfection.

Jim -

Are you happy with how that turned out??? Is it intended to be a copy of an existing (or past) Luger carbine???

I can't make out the toggle...Did he remove the pistol rear sight???

Does the foregrip have the extra recoil spring???

How's she shoot???

Postino, If you are referring to the first picture of a "lugerman" carbine, I have yet to receive the gun. Hopefully, any day now. It is a picture of my completed gun, and he was waiting for my final payment before sending the gun. It should be here any day (fingers crossed!). It is very similar to a 1920 commercial carbine, but not exact. Yes, there is no sight on the rear toggle, only the one like a luger carbine that is on the barrel. It supposedly shoots great on Winchester ammo. I don't know if it has a recoil assist spring like the originals.

In the second set of pictures (John Martz carbine), the configuration is identical to a 1902 American Eagle Carbine with the exception of the 16" barrel and the patented Martz Toggle Release. The p38 carbine is a copy of nothing as they never existed. They also have been tuned to Winchester ammo by the builder. By the way, John Martz's knowledge of metallergy is so acute that he was able to produce weapons like the P-38 carbine and leave them "in the white" without evidence of where metal has been added or where welding has occurred. All the original lettering on both guns are crisp and clear. No evidence of buffing whatsoever. Both guns pictured are without any finish of any kind, just a special treatment to the metal to prevent rusting. Both guns were created over 25+ years ago, and have had no special care. There are no signs of deterioration.

Here is a comparison
 

Here is a comparison between my original 1902 carbine and John Martz recreation. You can see that they are the same.

Could you show a close-up of this area on the white gun?

Jim -

Yep, that's the one I meant. If I'm understanding you and Pistol_Whipped correctly, neither of you has received your pistols/carbines yet; just pictures. I hope you actually get what is pictured, and that the pics you received aren't PhotoShop creations.

I love the Martz recreations. I've been toying with the idea of a long barrel [6" or so] P-38 for years, with a steel backstrap, but haven't been able to find a decent looking/reasonably priced pistol to work with. My own creations are "shooters", not works of art like Martz's, but I sure wish I had his abilities... :D

My Completed Mauser and Lugerman...
 

You are correct. On the deadline I set ( August 1) Eugene Golubstov (Lugerman) announced to me that my gun was finished and sent me nine photographs as proof. I have since sent him payment and should have my pistol by next week.

Now, if for some reason that doesn't happen I'm sure you have a pretty good idea by now what I will do.

Paul and Jim -

Do you two have "before" pics of the pistol you sent him??? I don't think we need them here, but when you gentlemen get your completed pistols back, I (and I'm sure, others here) would be interested in a "before and after" comparison...A separate thread, with pics, maybe pointing out the areas where the most [restorative] work occurred... :)

donor gun
 

Postino, I did not send a luger...."Lugerman" provided the donor gun.

Alvin, Here are the pictures you requested
 

Excuse the quality of the pictures. Another of Lugerman's talents is his ability to take very nice pictures. I lack his expertise.

Thanks for the pictures! He did excellent, especially the left side. Restoration like this was not cheap.

He does fine work and takes equally fine pictures. If he spent the time it takes to take those pictures working on guns he might not have such delivery problems. :p

:D

I've always admired his custom work but Hugh Clark did a much nicer job on the grip of a Baby Luger conversion. In Eugene's grip you can see a very fine silver line where grip is shortened but on Hugh's work it's invisible.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...BabyLugerR.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6.../BabyLuger.jpg

That Baby Luger is one fine looking piece and quite the conversation starter, I'll bet. Have you shot it yet?

Charlie

Here is Martz baby luger
 

Here is my well used Martz baby luger. Even with worn grip straps....little evidence of frame shortening

There are "Papa Nambu" and "Baby Nambu". But it's the first time that I saw a "Papa-Baby Nambu". Here:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=136498149

===

It's so uncommon. Since the ad will disappear one day, I will steal the pictures:

...Or is it a "Baby Papa-Nambu"???... :roflmao:

Man! I thought some of the stuff I did was weird... :D

After more threats, luger carbine finally arrived
 

I finally received my finished luger carbine from "lugerman" on Wednesday. Wow, what a struggle after waiting almost a year. It is pretty well done. The donor gun was obviously a nice gun with no pitting. The commercial proofs are sharp, and all letters and numbers are sharp. The donor was a matching number 1920 commercial. Here are a couple of pictures of the gun. The gun does have the carbine type frame extension, but instead of a wedge like the 1902 and 1920 carbines, it has a screw from the bottom like a 1920 commercial Navy carbine (rare). Also, it does not have nor does it need an assist spring. Not up to the quality of a Martz, but very acceptable.

luger carbine
 

For some reason, the pictures are not true colors of the wood. The wood matches, and is darker than the picture of the gun, and lighter than the picture of the stock. Probably the different background colors.

Hey Charlie,

Yes, I've shot it twice (two full mags) and it shoots very well exhibiting no problems. I love it and everyone who sees it (that has any knowledge of Lugers) is very impressed with the workmanship. Hugh Clark did a wonderful job.

It would seem that LUGERMAN'S major problem is either taking on too many jobs or underestimating their delivery time. I never like to rush an artist. I'd rather let him do it right than do it fast. In the past, I've waited over 2 years for work by Morgan or Martz, but I did learn one thing, don't pay in full, until the job it done. I don't do restorations or any refinishing, but still find that some jobs just take longer than my original estimate, I thank those who have patience and just want the repairs done right. TH

Lugerman credibility
 

Hi Tom, I see from other posts that you have an excellent reputation. Reputation is in fact what is in question concerning Lugerman.......has nothing to do with patience in a long wait for quality products. I too have a number of Martz (P38 carbine, 1900 Luger carbine, baby Luger, P-38 target pistol), Morgan restoration (Borchardt), Prudhomme engraved piece (1906 Swiss), etc., and never questioned the time it took for quality. What I do question in Lugerman's situation is a promised delivery of 6 weeks. Not knowing the gunsmith, not knowing that he does this part time, not knowing that he was in the midst of a federal audit, I contracted with him. When all the excuses had settled, after numerous outright lies to stall me off, with the threat of lawsuit, on the "eleventh hour" he promised me the gun which I just received. Promised in 6 weeks......delivered after 44 weeks. I wasn't being impatient..I was concerned that I was being scammed. He wanted and received half the money up front and wanted it overnighted to him. That should have sent up red flags, but he has a near perfect record with Gunbroker. He said it normally took a month to complete a luger carbine. Is it no wonder that I became concerned that I had lost my money when many months had passed? Of course, anyone having delivery troubles by the time they wish to leave a negative their time has run out with Gunbroker. No credibility. The point being, not the wait....if he had been up front and indicated it could take a year or more....I wouldn't have been worried, and would have actually been please to receive the gun ahead of the estimated delivery date. At least my confidence in his legitimacy would not have been so shaken. He advertised on Gunbroker (still does), and has increased his delivery time to 5 or six months....still a time frame he cannot fulfill. He needs to stop taking orders so that he can fulfill his commitments or give people a more reasonable completion date. Then stop ignoring emails, and keep customers apprised as to his progress to reestablish his credibility. I am just thankful that I received something for my money. Not near the work of a Martz, but I got my moneys' worth.

Tom, I envy your ability to produce the type of metal work that can become the cornerstone of many collections. I never doubted that a quality product can take many, many hours of tedious work. Having trusted someone with to me a considerable sum of money, and then to be lied to.....that shakes my confidence. When told 6 weeks, and it takes 44 weeks, then that shakes my confidence. He should have been up front somewhere instead of making further promises that he could not keep. It would have been far better if he had said "look Jim, i have had some troubles here at home, and I will not be able to complete my commitment for at least a year or more". At least then I would not have been wondering for almost a year if I was getting anything for my money. Yes, quality takes time........lies take away credibility.

My appologies
 

Hi,

My apologies for unpleasant experience.

I am glad you received the product and you are happy with it.

My current turn around time is about 12 month and to avoid this type of situations in the future i am upfront about slow delivery times.

Also a design of my 1920 Carbine conversions have improved and you can visit my site fro revised version of the product.

Thanks.

Example of the last carbine version
 

Here are some pictures of one of the later conversions.
Thanks.

http://lugerman.com/images/Samples/Work_24/_J201098.jpg

http://lugerman.com/images/Samples/Work_24/_J201104.jpg

http://lugerman.com/images/Samples/Work_24/_J201107.jpg

[Pics saved to LugerForum.com]

LugerMan -

Thank you for posting the pics! :thumbup: