Hello, new member here, got a question
 

Good evening everyone,
I just found this forum while searching for some help on my Luger.
I recently acquired a 1914 DWM commercial in a trade. Beautiful pistol, all #'s match, no pitting or rust, but possibly a reblue( no straw on parts).
I love the pistol, have always wanted one since I was a kid ( I'm now 43), but there is a problem with this one:
- I thought I was getting a 9mm in the trade, but it turned out to be the .30 - no problem. The problem started when I bought a box of ammo that was 71 grain reman stuff. When the gun fired, it would not throw the toggle back far enough to eject the brass and reload another round.
Someone said this pistol was designed to operate on 93 gr stuff , so I figured the 71's did not create enough chamber pressure to operate the action.
O.K. new problem- I found some 93gr Fiocchi to try. The OAL is not as long as the reloads I tried. When I fire the pistol, there is sufficient power to cycle the action, however, after ejecting the spent case, the new round gets stuck at the top of the barrel , and the action will not close. It looks as if the shorter length is causing the round to "kick up" out of the mag and hang on the opening of the barrel before the action is finished cycling.
The only other thought I have is maybe the magazine is causing the jam. It is not the original mag, and appears to be aftermarket. Do you guys have a recommendation for a good mag?
What are your thoughts on the problem? All comments are welcome.
Please forgive me for being long- winded on my 1st posting. I hope to be on this site a while- I am also a member in good standing on OpticsTalk.com and AR15.com.
Thanks in advance, Guys.
HM

HM
My guess is the magazine. Suggest trying another one. It seems like most of the feed problems are caused by the mag. Suggest you contact lugerdoc on this forum. He sells mags, is a luger gunsmith and a nice guy to talk to. Bill

1914 DWM Commercial in .30 caliber..... even if there is such an animal, it must be super rare. Could it be a 1914 military with replaced .30 cal barrel.

If it's a military 9m/m gun with replaced .30 cal barrel, and assume no other major change on the gun (except the finish), would .30 ammo work on it?

Normally speaking, the Fiocchi shouldn't give you problems. I tried it in several .30 luger pistols with good results.

The problem is determining who did the rebarreling (or rechambering/relining) and why. It was popular in the 'old days' to convert pistols to ammunition that was cheap and abundant (like .30 luger once was). Any under barrel markings on the pistol?

Thanks for the replies.
The only markings on the barrel are as follows and in order:
B o 3 1
1801 ( matching ser #)
a ( small cursive)
388( or 333 or 383 or 888 or some variation of )

I might add that the cursive a is also found on the frame under the barrel.

those last 3 digits are very light markings and thus I am not entirely sure of their accuracy.
I am now curious about the .30 Luger chambering. I guess I was under the impression that this was a common chambering for a commercial 1914 DWM. The ser# on the barrel matches - as do all #'s on this gun. Would someone go through with the trouble of faking the # ? It looks to be of the same stamp type as the ser# on the rest of the gun. I have tried to post pics for you all, but have been unsuccessful at this point. Could email them to you.
HM

First, the Luger is recoil operated, pressure has nothing to do with it. As a loose rule of thumb a load with a heavier bullet will produce more recoil.

The 9 mm and 7.65 mm Lugers had two different recoil springs. Unfortunately, shooter grade lugers tend to have out of spec springs because they have been doctored by the unknowing according to one or another urban legend. It’s been my experience that if I open up six shooter grade Lugers, I will find seven different recoil springs, none of which match spec. The first question is, do you have the correct spring?

The Fiocchi stuff is seriously under loaded. It’s quite possible that the breech block is not going all the way back and is picking up the next round by dragging on the case or groove rather than getting behind it and pushing as it is supposed to do.

The magazine is always a suspect. Vintage magazines have “history”. They are often not up to par. Look at how thin the lips are and consider what happens if you drop one on its head.

Modern 9 mm ammo is loaded shorter than the original and this can be a problem. I’ve not hear of it as a problem with the 7.65. The bottle necked case tends to feed better. I used to shoot semi-wadcutters and full wadcutters from a 7.65 Luger.

Interesting. Do you know offhand the "poundage" of the two OEM springs???

Wolff offers only one set of springs, of different "poundages". Sarco/GPC [Numrich] do not differentiate between the two calibers, as far as recoil springs are concerned.

I have an assortment of Luger recoil springs, culled over the years. I have a spring gauge which I could set up to measure them all, but without a baseline the results would not have much value.

HM..Is there a date over the chamber?

Jerry Burney

"The only markings on the barrel are as follows and in order:
B o 3 1
1801 ( matching ser #)
a ( small cursive)
388( or 333 or 383 or 888 or some variation of"

It sounds like a 1914 with a B�¶hler barrel in 9mm (8,83 bore gauge), that has been relined to 7.65 mm /.30 Luger.

Ron

Since I truly don't know anything about Lugers, here's the dumb question: is the Bohler barrel a "factory " barrel? I ask this because of the matching #.

The date 1914 is on the shroud over the chamber.

Yes, many 1913 and 1914 Military Lugers are found with Bohler made barrels.

Thank you kindly, Mr. Smith.
Also thanks to everyone participating in this thread so far.
As stated above, I have always loved/wanted one of these fine firearms. I am a little disappointed that I am having trouble with it, but to date, I have approximately $570 in trade value in this pistol, so I don't think I got rooked. I just think it will take a little tinkering to get it functioning properly.
I do wish it was chambered in 9mm though for the availability in ammo. Otherwise, I wouldn't have a problem with it being in .30 Luger.

Any Luger for $570 isn't a bad deal.

Ron

I go with Ron's assessment.

Boehler was (and still is) an Austrian steel supplier who had a subsidiary in Germany, with a head office in Berlin in the early 1900s. The main share holder of the German branch was none other than Isidor Loewe, who also had the Ludwig Loewe & Cie under his umbrella, including daughter companies DWM and Mauser. Members of the Boehler family retook control of the company after the death of Loewe. This change of ownership roughly corresponds with the disappearance of the Boehler markings on DWM barrels, it's not unlikely that the outbreak of the war was also a reason to obscure the source of barrel material a bit more.

Vlim - I am confused. Were ALL DWM barrels made by Boehler, and some had Boehler markings, and some didn't?

Alvin,

To my knowledge just about every DWM barrel was made from Boehler steel. Boehler went on to supply barrel steel to Mauser afterwards. Since much of the documentation (especially from the DWM era) has been lost, it's impossible to say for certain that Boehler was the only (exclusive) supplier, though.

The Boehler marking disappeared, but they remained a supplier, no doubt about that. Boehler is still mentioned as supplier to Mauser in the 1945 CIOS intelligence report.

The Wolff springs are not to spec. They don't even look like the originals. Wolff only specifies the loaded force, they give no other specs. To specify the spring you need loaded force, preload force, unloaded length, number of turns, etc. The preload is critical in the Luger. I'd get an in spec spring from Luger Doc before I went to Wolff. But first figure out what you actually have in the pistol. "Tired" springs are an urban myth. A spring does not weaken until just before complete failure.

I have the spring specs, but I've recently moved and stuff is still in boxes. One of the other people here should have the complete specs. I did have a setup to measure Luger spring forces and ran measurements on the motley assortment I had in my shooters. I have one with an unsafe recoil spring. Aside from not slowing down the cannon enough and allowing it to batter against the frame it does not reliably close the action all the way. This is a BIG safety hazard as the disconnector will allow the trigger to connect with the breech block slightly back and the toggle not locked. The consequences of firing in this state do not bear thinking about. I've fired a few empty primed cases this way to prove the point.

Noel:

I've been trying to contact you at your old work e-mail address.

Please MP or e-mail me with your new one.

Sieger

Getting Lugers to shoot properly is like tinkering with auto electrical systems made by Lucas.

Luger Tuning
 

Aaron:

Not really. There are really just a few simple principles to follow:

1) Springs, springs, springs!!! If they are not in spec, forget about it!!!!!

2) OAL, OAL, OAL!!! Violate this little rule and your Luger will never shoot reliably!!!!

3) Powder charge, powder type. With very little variation, when a Luger is tuned properly, they are both reliable and extremely accurate!!!!

Sieger

Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis??? :eek:

You are funny!

Sieger

I can feel your pain Huntmaster, I bought a luger for the same reason and had the same problems. One magazine was good, the other gave me constant jams, often the old cartridge was not ejected and the new one got stuck with the toggle open.
I suggest you contact G.T. here in the forum.
He helped me with mecgar magazines I bought online, put stronger springs in it and such. My luger now shoots fine with 4 magazines and I'm happy I made the investment

Roger that,

My 1937 S/42 / VoPo shooter has performed flawlessly for several years now. Fresh springs, MecGar magazines, S&B 124gr 9x19 and no noticable problems whatsoever.

I recently got a batch of Winchester White Box 9mm and although it is good, the S/42 doesn't like it as much as the S&B. Let's say a 90% reliability score with Win, and a 99.9% reliability score with S&B.

(ah, and never load the mags to the max. 5 - 6 rounds always works well).

British car electronics are like Russian quality control, German humour and Dutch generosity: Not good :)

Vlim:

With only 5 or 6 rounds loaded in the magazine, you are cheating, as most of the problems occur with the first three of a full 8 round magazine. Ha!

Do you know, by the way, the advertized velocity, in feet per second, of the 124 grain S&B ammo you have had success with?

Sieger

Yes, we EU-victims are only allowed to have 5 rounds in the mags during practice, and 6 during Military Pistol shooting :)

Here ya go (it's in meters per second, though)
http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/pistol-...=9&product=172

360 m/s =/= 1181 fps.

S&B 124 gr.
 

Vlim:

I quess you are fortunate to be "allowed" to have a pistol at all in the E.U. Unfortunately, liberals and socialists don't like firearms. Why, I haven't figured out, as they are usually the first victims when a government goes "wrong".

Per the original DWM and later Mauser manuals, the S&B ammo does appear a bit high 1181 v 1076 (or 9.7% higher than the original loading).

With the proper springs, however, this shouldn't be a problem in operation.

As always, thanks!

Sieger

Sieger: Sent a message, no reply yet.

You can reach me at unspellable@yahoo.com among others.

Isn't that a little "hot" for a Luger??? :eek:

(Ah; sorry - I see this has already been commented on...) :thumbup:

HM,It sounds as though your barrel is the original 9mm one originally installed in 1914. If it has been relined to 7.65mm for some reason, it's possible that you still have the 19 turn WW1 9mm recoil spring installed. Perhaps an original 17 turn 7.65mm spring would solve your feed problems, but as mentioned above, there are many other factors that may be responcable. TH

Thanks for the reply, LugerDoc. I'll have to check that out.
Upon examining the mag installed in the pistol, it looks like there is a 1/8" gap between the lip of the mag and the feedramp on the barrel. I'll have to wait until the next gun show ( 1st weekend in June) to try another mag to see if this gap is normal unless some of you can tell me up front.
The guy I got the pistol from just gave me a Luger holster with the markings dLv 41 and a waffenampt stamp on it. Not the best condition in the world, but I am glad to have it. Would love to know it's history.
How did this get to be a classic bike thread?

Hello Lugerdoc. I took the grips off and counted the coils on the spring in the frame. ( I'll show my ignorance here by saying I suppose this is the recoil spring you mentioned). Actually, I counted 20 coils. Again, I will have to wait for the next show to see if I can find a 7.65 spring, and a different mag .
Question- are the mec-gar mags of reasonable replacement quality? And how much would be a reasonable price for a correct spring?
Also, upon examinig the underside of my grips, one of them says " made in Italy". Is this common? or am I running in to a " robbed parts" pistol. The grips appear very old, as if they came with the gun.

Update- I tried a new mag today and still have the same problem. I believe it's the recoil spring now. So I've got to find a 7.65 spring. Any suggestions on a supplier?

Tom Heller :)

Ordered a spring from Tom Heller tonight. Easy guy to talk with. Offered some tips, and answered a few questions for me.
I know a lot of things about a lot of guns, but Luger is not one of them- neither is the P-38. I am beginning to get a grasp of it though, and am learning more every day.
Thanks for the welcome and input,guys.
HM
(Derek)

HM, I'm holding a couple of original 7.65mm luger springs for you to try. TH

Thanks, Lugerdoc. Payment sent this a.m. .

I didn't see anyone answer so: The small 8,83 you see is the distance between the lands in mm. they usually run from 8,82 - 8,86.

A big THANKS to you guys, and especially Lugerdoc. He was right on the money- the mainspring was the culprit of my troubles. I counted 21 coils on the original spring in my pistol, Lugerdoc recommended to try a 17 coil spring. I got it today, installed(fun) ,and tried it out.
It now operates flawlessly with 93gr Fiocchi rounds. Lesson for those who do not know- avoid Kinematics Research reman loads- they still do not cycle the toggle back far enough to eject and chamber the next round.
I will now try to figure out how to post pics on the new member forum to show off my humble pistol.
Also got to get someone to tell me about the holster that came with it.
Again, Thanks!
Auf wedersehen,
HM

HuntMaster:

Please see your Private Message.

Sieger