45 DWM 1921 Luger ?????
 

Just bought a 1921 dated DWM Luger in .45 ACP, from a walk in at a local gun show. He told me he thought it was a salesman's sample from the Stoeger days. It is a beautiful high gloss blue with a six inch barrel. It has no grip safety. It has the same trigger guard and trigger profile as the US Army trials Lugers. It has a chamber date of 1921, DWM on the toggle link, 45 on the underside of the takedown lug, 45 on the inside of the frame in front of the takedown lever and 11.35mm underneath the chamber on the inside. There are absolutely no other markings or proofs, ANYWHERE on any of the parts. The frame is NOT widened as is seen on some Martz Lugers. The gun is in a custom leather covered display case with a wood bottomed magazine and vintage cleaning tools as seen with some early Lugers. There is no indication whatever who may have made this gun. The finish is about mint, but the gun is obviously not newly made. Any help would be VERY welcome as to the identity of the maker. Thanks.

Tom,
Lugers made for the commercial market were not dated. My guess is if this Luger was made for Stoeger or another importer, it wouldn't be dated. The 11.35mm seems American. The European decimal is a comma, which is normally seen on the underside of the barrel for the bore gauge, such as 8,82 and (mm) was never used.
These are just some thoughts I had about it. Pictures would be great.

Well maker would be DWM if original (doubtful). Pictures would be nice to see?

Does anyone know if Krause marks his in this manner? I know he would not use a 1921 frame, although Martz and other people would.

Any shootable 45 luger would be high on my list to buy :)


Ed

petesguns

Welcome to the Lugerforum. Photos of your very unusual Luger will be a necessity to determine its origin since an inperson inspection would be difficult. I know many on the forum would like to see this gun.

Please post closeup sharp focus photos of both sides, the top, the front of the frame, the underside of the barrel, and any other markings that you believe you see on the gun. If you have problems with posting digital photos, you can send them to me at lugerforum@gmail.com and I will be glad to post them for you.

Thanks, and please note that bthe barrel is 7" and not 6.

Where is this luger located? I heard of a 45 luger around my area so just wondering.

Jerry

One thing I can tell everyone here...this is defintely NOT a Krausewerk luger! We know there were various makers of .45 lugers, such as Wyatt, etc. As said above, pictures are mandatory.

The Photos...
 

To all,

The photos have just arrived and I know you are all anxious will post them all for your viewing pleasure.

This is a 1921 DWM Luger that has been cleverly modified by a skilled gunsmith to shoot .45 ACP. I can assure you that it did not leave the DWM factory that way.

Some of you may remember that a couple of years ago, Cpt. Monty Mendenhall (I hope I spelled his name correctly), posted photos of a gun similar to this one. That particular conversion was much more crude than this one and I recommended that it NOT be test fired...

A major difference in this gun is that the trigger guard has been stretched and shaped to look like the original .45 test guns of 1906-1907.

The grip frame has the standard P.08 profile and not the profile of the original .45 Lugers or the replica guns made by Mike Krause.

The magazine well has been enlarged by metal removal to accept a .45 caliber sized magazine body.

The magazine appears to have been made by modifying a standard M1911 Colt magazine. All in all, this conversion's quality is much better than the ones previously seen that were not made by Martz... however, because of the amount of metal that had to be removed from the frame and upper receiver in order to get a .45 ACP round to fit and function, I am unsure about the strength of the conversion, and can't say I would recommend test firing this gun in your hand...at least until it had been test fired in a ransom type rest and then examined for potential damage.

I would absolutely NOT recommend the firing of HOT loads in this gun.

I'll bet it would be fun to put a couple boxes through this one!

Thanks to Petesguns for sharing the photos... :thumbup:

I don't know what you paid for this gun, but it is pretty unique even if it is a modification of a standard frame Luger, and not an original. Outside of the Martz conversions, I haven't seen many that looked this good.

Here are the first 10 photos:

Here are more photos of the .45 conversion Luger.
 

Enjoy!

More Photos - .45 Caliber conversion
 

The final 7 photos! :burnout:

THANK you for posting the photos. I also appreciate any info that anyone can dredge up on this old girl. I have NOT shot it, but if it sticks around long enough, I will, as suggested , in a rest first, and hoping all goes well, then have some fun with her. It does look like a nicely done job. The gun is in my shop, Pete's Gun Shop, in Adams, MA. It will be at the West Springfield, MA, Big E gun show this weekend. Thanks again!

awesome !!!

big thanks for sharing

Bill

WOW!!!

NICE!!!

I see ware marks on the back of the frame, so it looks to have been fired a few times.
I would inspect the rear of the breachblock for damage both before and after firing a few rounds. Getting everything timed just right might be a challenge.

Have they done anything to the main recoil spring? You would have to remove the left grip to see?

Nice gun

Vern

Interesting... :)

Can you tell if it feeds/chambers a full-length 45 ACP round, or does the bullet have to be seated deeper than the 1.275" OAL recommended???

John, at least until it had been test fired in a ransom type rest and then examined for potential damage.

Bubba tapes em to an old tire and ties a string to the trigger.

Very neat pistola!

If you ever do decide to touch one off it would be an interesting report!

Jerry Burney

Looks like German always uses "K" to replace "C" (KaLiber). Most likely there is also a "C" in the language, replacing "K"?

Just kidding. The bolt to hold .45 must be interesting....

I don't wish to pry, but approx. what is that gem valued at?
DJU

Interesting and beautiful. Pity we can't give credit to the talented maker.

Those wood grips are really attractive. I wish I could find a set like that.

Woah, that is ridiculously sweet, i love the custom magazine from the original, nice as!

This is a beautiful example of a skilled gunsmith gone beserk! It must have taken many hours of buffing, machining, grinding, welding, bluing, etc. to come up with this curiosity. Obviously one of a kind, obviously re-blued and to be valued only by what a buyer would want to pay for it, providing the amount meets the requirements of the seller.

Well, I haven't figured out what I am going to do with this gun, as it really doesn't fit my collection, BUT, it is so beautiful, it is hard to part with it. I suppose if the right offer comes along.....they say everything has a price! Anyways, I am glad it brought some interest into your lives. If any more info comes available, I will post it here. THANKS to all who responded. Tom

looks like chipped breach block next to extractor in pic.

I enlarged the photo, and can't see a chip.

There is no chip anywhere, I believe it is a reflection of the light. The date is 1921 on the chamber, so it was obviously made after 1918. When, and by whom, is the question. The quality of the work is excellent, everywhere one looks. If anyone is interested in this gun, please contact me, and we will talk. It is so unique, that a direct value is difficult to establish. I guess it is worth whatever one is willing to pay for it.

Tom,
The "1918" reference has nothing to do with your Luger...it is part of my "signature".:)

Stupid me! Thanks! Heaven help us, I must be a repro too!

Pete, I sent you a PM several days ago....

Must be reflection on left side. looked like the extractor caught the block.Better put my glasses on. The work does look very nice, and wouldnt mind having it in my safe. good find, thats for sure.

Hi
anybody know if there is a problem with ffl transfer of a pistol with no serial ?

state is texas

searched thru prior postings - seems like a roll of the dice

thanks
Bill

No problem,

Thousands of guns were turned out prior to the 1968 gun laws with no serial numbers. Where the serial goes in the paperwork simply write N/A.

Yup, no problem with no serial number, we use NSN for the serial number column. I really do appreciate all of the comments on this old girl. She really is a piece of work. I have not fired it nor have I even tried to load it, as it looks so fine just sitting in her case.

We have just listed this gun for sale on the "green" auction site. Thank you to all who contributed to our quest for information on this gun.

What is the "green"auction Site? Gunbroker?

Looks like it:
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=127701745

Jack

Dear Petesguns,

Not cool.

I think you took advantage of the willingness of the kind people on this site to help you do research on this. You could have at least offered dibs or at least a good price or heads-up to those people who helped you.

Other forums are not this generous w/ their info for this very reason.

Sorry, but I have a hard time wishing you well on your sale. Hope you relist it to infinity, and I intend to steer clear of your brick and mortar store if you have one.

Oh well, feel that way. I asked for info and was given much good information. None of it was conclusive, but I did not EXPECT to get anything concrete. I will add that the gun was offered to a couple of people from this forum but it was declined. No problem, it did not sell in the shop, so a broader venue was chosen to market it. I am sorry you do not approve, but I did not see it in the fine print that I had to ask YOUR permission to sell MY gun. To all the other FINE people who attempted to help me, I again thank you for your input to my quest to try to find some info about this vexing piece. I also don't really care if it sells or not, but decided to offer it up anyway.

Justin, Not cool. No one here was taken advantage of..We all contribute as the subject interests us.

Offered dibs? A good price? You must be young and don't realize the nature of the open free market. Many if not most of the people who help here don't want everything that appears and certainly don't expect charity.
I think most people who frequent this Forum will continue to interact with no demand for special favors.
Sorry, but I have a hard time wishing you well on your sale. Hope you relist it to infinity, and I intend to steer clear of your brick and mortar store if you have one.
This is hatefull and beyond the pale. Certainly not the kind of behavior I or any of our members expect and I think you owe Tom an apology if you expect to remain around here long.
When a Moderator reads this you may get some attention you deserve.
Jerry Burney

Fair enough. No apology will be given, however. Mods (including you, Mr. Burney), do what you will.

A couple of members were interested in this gun, and it was offered to them. I certainly am not upset it was not accepted. I decided to put it up on a national venue to see if anyone would decide they really wanted it as a unique addition to their collection. It certainly would have a better home in the hands of a Luger collector, than in my shop, where it is certainly appreciated, but does not get the specific attention it would get in a dedicated collection. I really don't care if it sells or not, as it is certainly a wonderful piece, even in my own non dedicated collection. I also TOTALLY appreciate the helpful attempts from all but one member here at trying to help me find some info on this gun, as that is really what forums are for, sharing of information and knowledge. I need no apology, as it would most likely be hollow in meaning. This is a unique gun, and I knew NOTHING about it when I acquired it. I now know alot more about it, due in most part to this forum and it's generous members. I DO hope that those who have viewed it, have enjoyed it. Well, all but one of you. Take care, and again, thank you.

Justin..Mr. Burney..You have me at a disadvantage sir...since you do not have the stones to sign your own posts.
Personal attacks are NOT tolerated on this Forum. Your childish behavior towards Tom stamps you as immature and your response to tone down your outlandish hateful attack shows me you are NOT a desirable contributor to these boards. This is a very poor way to start out as a new member.
You could have at least offered dibs or at least a good price..begging for charity strikes me as extremely pathetic.
Had I written this childish tirade... I would beg forgiveness.
As for what our Moderators will do I cannot say but with no explanation or contrition you'd be history to me.

Jerry Burney