1939 s/42 ????
 

Hello and thank you for helping me with my Luger questions.

I have a 1939 S/42 that is all matching numbers except for the magazine. The bluing looks extremely good for a 70 year old gun and I would like to know:

1. Where and how many were made? (is it a rare one)
2. What branch of the military used it?
3. What is the value?

My wife's Grandfather brought it back from the war along with a neat little desk clock. I believe he said he "acquired" both from a German Officer.

I'll post a pic of the clock if you are interested because it has the German Reich stamped inside.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Hi,

The gun has been reblued somewhere between 1939 and today. Giveaways are the polished look and lack of sharp edges. Buty you are right, it is a very nice looking pistol. The value will be affected by the reblueing, however. Many soldiers who brought back pistols from WW2 lost, misplaced, or simply sold their pistols in the early years following the war. Other pistols were refurbished, reblued or even nickle or chrome plated.

Since German military issue P08's were no longer unit marked it's difficult to determine where they were used and by whom. So all we can say for sure is that it is German Army.

Do the grips have any markings on the inside?

Tracey, welcome to the forum, these war time guns went through a lot and sometimes they had bangs, scratches etc and the GI just wanted it prettied up, however, ruining the collector value.

A shooter like this is worth around $600-$700, maybe a bit more, but it all depends on who is looking that weekend at the gun show (if you had a table) and the market is fickle right now (cheap is a not as nice term)....

Ed

Tracey & Vlim, My initial reaction was that this was a reblue, due to the elongated TD lever hole & the thin proofing, but whoever did it was sharp enough to recreate the correct "purple" type blue on the extractor & ejector, which is difficult to fake. If the family can document its possession since WW2, I might want reconsider this assumption. TH

Tom,

Note the shallowness of the eagle-markings and the rounded, smoothed edges of the receiver and frame. The plum discoloration takes place very quickly, even after a reblue.

Tracey, I have to agree with the consensus, that this Luger did get polished and reblued sometime after it was acquired during WW2. The smooth finish is just too nice to be a wartime production military pistol.

The other comments by our colleagues above appear legitimate...

To make these statements without a first hand inspection in person is not as risky as you might think. All those who have commented, including myself, have examined literally hundreds of Lugers, and perhaps thousands of Luger photographs...

Describing exactly what to look for so that a novice can quickly pick out a reblue from and original finish would probably fill a book that most of us don't have time to write. That is what makes this forum so valuable to Luger owners... the available information.

I understand that this is probably not welcome news, but I sympathize with you because my father's own war trophy (now mine) was also refinished... BY ME before I knew any better 40+ years ago.

The extractor and ejector are two easely removed parts that may have still looked nice and were therefore not included in the re blue job.

I have a mismatched S-42 toggle that was just re-blued (hot Blued). Only the extractor came out that color, suggesting to me that it was of a different metal since it went thru the same process.
And Tracey enjoy this bit of history. Re-blued or not it is a very nice gun. If only it could talk...
DJU

I don't know for sure if the metal of these two parts is different from the rest of the gun, but they are definitely heat treated differently since they are both "springs".

I think the surface hardness of these spring parts is what causes them to "take" the blue solution differently than the rest of the pistol.

Tracey,
Several of the Forum's more experienced collectors have commented about the finsh on your Luger and I would absolutely trust their judgement. In response to your original questions, I would add the following:
1) The 1939 S/42 Lugers are pretty scarce as not many were made in 1939 before Mauser went from the S42 Code to the 42 Code on the toggles. I"m traveling and don't have any reference material with me, but I seem to remember that less than 40,000 were made as S/42s.
2) Generally these pistols were issued to the German Army. A very small number went to the Police and I'm not sure, but a few might have also been issued to the Navy. Both Navy and Police versions are even harder to come across.
3) Ed knows a lot about current values and I would trust the value number that he gave you.
Hope this helpe your quest for information.
Lyn

Refinished or not, your pistol is a very beautiful Luger. And, above all remember it is still a Luger. The history it represents was not refinished so I suggest you keep and enjoy it as it is.

Could you also post a picture of the clock? I love those as well. TIA

Thanks for all of your advice and encouragement. I'm really proud of how the gun looks and will post the pic of the clock Mon or Tues.

This is great place to come for advice.

Tracey

Clock
 

Here's the clock. The year is 1933 and has two metal feet that fold out for when it's sitting on the desk or it can be hung on the wall.

I know this is a Luger forum but has anyone seen a clock like this before?

Update on clock info
 

I Googled it and only saw one online like it.

It's called a Kienzle station clock and Heereseigentum means" (Army Property).

http://www.fieldgear.org/clock.htm

Tracey
That's one neat clock!!!!!!
Bill

Tracey, Your clock appears to be a commerative reproduction (see 1950s or 60s date on the back) of a clock from a military vehicle, mounted in a custom wood case. Very nice, TH

LugerDoc,
The clock is dated 1933. Did you look at this link?

http://www.fieldgear.org/clock.htm

I collect and restore American weight and early spring clocks from ~1850 so for what it's worth: It looks like the movement was replaced (different hands and lack of seconds hand). The dial and case looks original or at least nicely reproduced if not original. The inside is also quite different from the one in the link. When you say "German Reich" stamped, do you mean "nazi" and are your referring to the ink stamp inside. 1933 would make it pretty early for a "nazi" clock. Do you have a picture of the movement? That would make for a better assessment.

Beautiful pistol, and a trick clock too. Even for a reblue, looks like a stunning pistol, well done from most you usually see

Markings
 

Here are a few more pics of the Luger.

The grips had an S stamped on them with the matching 47 that is on the gun.

Can anyone give me more info on the eagles that are stamped on the gun?

The first two pair are Army Acceptance stamps, a little hard to tell from the photos, but they appear to both be 'stick winged' E/63s, which is correct for that pistol, and the third one, is an Army Test Proof Stamp.

Thanks WB! Would you have anything to add about the year and make that wasn't discussed above?

UT

There were approx. 38500 1939 S-42's manufactured and approx. 85500 42- 1939's produced. The change, according to Still , occurred in April 1939. Bill

correct, just reading up with Still at the moment, and as someone else pointed out on the previous page, and as Bill and Still's (i'm a poet :p), insight above confirms, is that there weren't a 'big' amount of these made, as they changed from the S/42, to a '42' code pistol in April, so, the majority of 1939s are 42 code.

Thanks guys, I appreciate you taking the time to look up the info for me. The more I learn about this little pistol, the more I like it. I can't get over how tight the action is for a 70 year old gun. The Germans have their act together when it comes to engineering things.

Before I retired from the Air Force, I was able to visit the Eagles Nest in Germany and I was amazed that they were still using the original elevator that was built inside the mountain. That thing was smooth all the way to the top and I beleive it got its power from a diesel motor. One of these days I hope to get back to Germany.

Tracey

The elevator at the Eagle's Nest is still powered by a U-Boat diesel engine!

Collector Mark Bando owns the original keys to the elevator shaft doors, liberated by a 101st. Airborne trooper.

Very nice Luger and clock

Wow, keys to the elavator, that would make a great conversation piece.

Here's a photo of the keys, they were so long they folded. Mark Bando has a nice website with great historical content as well as a nice souvenir collection.

http://www.101airborneww2.com/souvenirs4.html

Very nice site and it's good to see someone collecting all of that history.

I received a Gunbroker.com email today that stated WWII items are the number one military collectable and that Nazi items are highly sought after.

What an incredible collection.