First Luger.
 

Hallo

My name is Ingvar, I live in Iceland and this is my first post on this great board.
I just got my first Luger p08 and wanted to get some more info on it. Year, unit etc.
This is a DWM with no year # on the reciever and the serial# is low 800.b
There is a unit (i think) mark on the front of the grip 8.R.6.2.
The pistol is numbers matching exept the magasines and there is some light pitting on the outside.
I would apriciate if someone could tell me something about the year manufactured and the unit marking.
I will post pictures soon.

Thanks
Ingvar

Greeting to Iceland, and God bless during the difficult times.

As you might know, your Luger is made by 'Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken'.

When it comes to the unit mark and such.. since I have a memory like a hippo, this came to my mind:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=19133
I quess it's the same gun?

..no year stamped over the chamber?

Hello and thank you for your kind words and responce.
btw. the life is not as difficult here now as stated in the world news. I still wakes up in the mornings, got my family, my house, car and plenty to eat and shoot.............. And just got a Luger, Something i have dreamt of for almost 30 years.:D

And, yes this is the same gun, and i just got it this morning.
I didnt know my frend Hinrik had posted this here :cheers:
There is no year stamp over the chamber.

Thanks and all the best from Iceland.
Ingvar

Good to hear that things are not all bad. It's beside the topic.. but I think many norwegians (like me) feel especially "attached" to Iceland and therefore would like our government to come up with something helpful for our neighbors..


-No stamp on the chamber? that's weird.. how is the right side of the receiver (that's the upper part of the Luger), any markings there?

I would imagine that your pistol is what is known as a 1908 first military. Most of these were made in 1909 and have no date on the chamber. Whether or not it is an '08 can quickly be determined by the location of acceptance stamps and proof. If these stamps are on the left side of the receiver it is an '08. From 1910 forward all miltary Lugers are dated and proof and acceptance stamping is on the right side of the receiver.

The unit marking indicates Reserve Infantry Regiment 8, Company 6, weapon 2. How about posting more photos when you get a chance?

Hi again
Morgan, Your government was, i think the first to offer their help as well as the russians and we are really greatfull for that,:cheers:
But the british (Gordon Brown & co) are not wery popular around here by now:mad: But that is another story:grr:

Back to the Luger. There are three proof marks on the left of the reciever, just in front of the side plate, one on the barrel and at least one on the left side of the bolt. (Breechblock?)
I need to clean those up and take some macro pics of them and post here. I am at work now but will take some pics when i�´m back home to night.

Thaks again.
Ingvar

Great, pictures makes it more easy to say more about it ..more interesting as well:)
You can upload them here in this forum (look at the menu on the left side of the screen).

Hi
Nothing pesonal Tacfoley. Your prime minister is not your fault so please stay;)

But I agree.. no more politics, Only lugers..... and some pics within few hours.

cheers mate :cheers:

Ingvar

Tac, just to make it fair.. if you should aim it to someone, it should be me throwing that ball to Ingvar.
That said, I can't really see that we are talking politics here. More like blabbering to a new member.. If everything has to do with Lugers, I guess I'm at the wrong table.

Now I'm looking forward to seeing those pictures.

Hi
here ya go !!:cool:

http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4815.JPG
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4811.JPG
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4810.JPG
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4812.JPG
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4797.JPG
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4821.JPG
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4805.JPG
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4804.JPG

Sorry for the pic quality. I should rather have spent the monney i paid for the Cannon eos 400 camera, on guns :(
At least I know better how to use them:o

Ingvar

You did well Ingvar! Started out with a rare Luger in good condition.. not bad!
At work now, so I'm away from my books.. out of own curiosity I will find out more about these 'first military' Lugers later tonight. If I find something and nobody beats me to it, I will post any findings here.

One thing.. does it have a 'hold open' function? (toggle stay open after last round)

The pictures are not that bad.. but if you are not happy with the result, you might want to try this setting next time (from one Canon EOS owner to another);
"zoom" inn on the object, focusing manually, tripod, AV mode, set aperture to about 1:10 or higher, bring it outdoors (cloudy sky is fine) or use a lot of light (don't turn on the flash)

Thank you Steinar and George, i apriciate your help.

The proof marks are on the left side as the pics shows, so, as I understand it is a 1909 made, p08.
And yes, the pistol has the hold open funktion.

I took it last night for a through cleanup and inspection. Most of the pitting on the outside were loose and came off easy and the blueing turned out to be much better than i expected. On the inside it was simply excellent. Everithing tight and funktion is flawless. The barrel is a bit pitted after corrosive ammo but the rifling is bright and sharp.
All numbers match except the magasines which i got two of, one grey with wooden base which i belive is the right one for this pistol, and one WWII, blued with aluminium base. I also got a WWII holster (1939) and one box of orginal german WWII p08 ammo (16 rnds.)

But.....To the range tonight and lets see how it shoots as I am going to enjoy this pistol to the full, both on range and off. ;)

And....Thanks for the camera tips. I will try this during the weekend.

All the best:
Ingvar

The quantity of the 1909 Lugers has never been confirmed according to the book "the Luger story", though 15 000 is mentioned in the identification list.. 17684 where produced in 1910 and 28040 in 1911, so I guess it's an estimate from that information.

The "standard" holster 'PT08' fist came approximately the date your Luger where produced.. out of curriosity, is your holster dated 1909?

looks like a early one, markings on the left show that, plus no stock lug ;)


nice turkeys on the table too :D


Ed

Steinar, The hoster is not the right one with the gun, but it is a 1939 with the usual nazi eagle stamp with svatzika nest in the claws.
I can only see part of the manufacturer stamp, looks like: "????RLBUSSE MAINZ", and the colour is dark brown.

Edward: I had no nazy eagle large enough to capture on the pics with the Luger so the turkeys had to do it.:cheers:


Well I�´m out to the range with the Luger. About time..... It has not been fired for at least twenty years.:eek:

It's nice to see the small inspector's mark near the holdopen hole on the frame. It indicates that the holdopen was added at a later date and that the modification was checked.

Very nice early P08!!

Hello again

Well......I�´m back from the range :D
The pistol turned out to be exellent. I fired about 100 rnds. Magtech 115grs. and everything worked perfectly, not a single malfunction and unbelievebly accurate. :cool:

This is the first time I shoot a p08 but did fire some 50 rnds through a 1906 Navy Luger couple of monts ago and I,m absaloutly fallen in love with the Luger.

And thanks G. van Vlimmeren for the info on the insp.mark and the hold open. This is something i did�´nt know.;)

All the best from Iceland.
Ingvar

It's interesting to hear if you have that mark or not Ingvarg, to find out if the design changes with stock lug and hold open where implemented at the same time.

Incredible that a Luger can survive 99years and still be in such a great shape! Now you just need to find a shooter grade luger, so that you don't risk braking anything on this higly collectable Luger;)

Hi Steinar
It does have that mark so according to given information the hold open was added later.

Finding a shooter grade Luger could be a huge problem her in Iceland. Lugers are wery few and far between here, importing not allowed and the price high. Getting an oppertunity to buy one is almost a once in a liftime chance, so getting another one is almost impossible.........but who knows ? :cool:
I have been in guns for years and first got my hands on a Luger this year.
But there is always room for one more in my safe....or two........or......????
:rolleyes:

Gretings !
Ingvar

Thanks for checking! Seems like both changes where implemented at the same time.
This is a guess; if DWM started their numbering for the German army with 1, yours is the 10809 delivered from march 1909 (9999 + 810) out of the approximately 15000 made that year (think the estimate is a bit high, as it was not a full year of production).
Does anyone know when they implemented the design changes? ..and from wich serial number?

Too bad there are so few shooter grade Lugers over in Iceland.. Good luck in your search for the next luger;)

More recent estimated production of the '08 militaries is in excess of twenty thousand (Still). Between 1908 and 1916 there were several changes that took place in the P08. In 1910 the inspectors' marks and proof were moved from the left to right side of the receiver and the year of manufacture was added above the chamber.
In 1911 further changes took place. The serial number placement of two digits on small parts was moved to visible surfaces rather than out-of sight locations as on the commercial models. Two additional changes took place with the serial number marking of the magazine. First a small suffix was added to the serial number then later the size and orientation of the serial number on the magazine was changed to match that of the Erfurt production. Prior to this change the magazine serial numbers on military DWM P08's was oriented back to front with large numerals.

During 1913 three more changes took place with the addition of a stock lug to the rear grip strap, a new front sight blade and a hold-open device to the frame. Also in 1913 army orders called for earlier model P08's to be turned in in order that they be retrofitted with a hold-open device and the newer front sight. Evidence indicates that Bavarian and at least some Wuertemberger units did not send their weapons back for refitting.

1914 saw some slight changes to the interior of the frame. These are thought to be efforts to strengthen the frame in order to meet the anticipated requirements of the LP08 which began production in that year.

1916 saw the last significant change with the relief (shortening) of the sear bar. This permitted the shooter to chamber a cartridge while the pistol safety was engaged.

Geo, nice write up, consise with a huge amount of information.


Ed

George, thanks for your very informative post!
I took the liberty to print it out as a note to my self.. hope it's ok! This information does not come that clearly from my books:)

Thank you all for your replys:)
This has been very informative for me and I really apriciate. :cheers:

The construction and craftmanship on those pistols are amazing and I think I will never get tired of just looking at them and the details.
There are not many people in the world today, there would be able to construct an build such a high quality pistol, using 100 years old tecnology and machinery.

I wonder if todays "Tupperware" pistols will be in such a good shape in 100 years:rolleyes:

Ingvar

The estimated figure of 25,000 stated in Still constitutes the total production of the 1908 First Issue military representing the production years of 1908 and 1909 inclusive. According to Still, the highest serial number reported for 1908 First Issue Lugers is 4828b, hence the 25,000 estimation (this assumes that the serial number range might have run up to 5000b). If we assume that the production rate was pretty consistent over both years (a gross over simplification) that would make the serial number range for 1908 run from 1 to 2500a, and 1909 production would run from 2501a to 5000b. Following that rather tenuous line of thinking, that would make #810b the 8310th Luger produced in 1909

Serial numbering during the first four years of production can be confusing. From 1908 through 1911 the numbering continued sequentially from 1 through the f-block, with considerable overlaps in the suffixes between the production years from 1909 to 1911 (i.e. 1909 and 1910 overlap in the b-block, and 1910 and 1911 overlap in the c-, d- and e-blocks). Setting the serial numbering back to 1 at the beginning of the production year apparently did not occur until 1912.

I often wonder if the GI sitting in a fox hole, holding his newly acquired Luger had any idea this would be would evolve into such a complicated hobby. I can just hear one telling another, " hey Mac, mine has a "K" over the chamber, wonder why? What does yours have?" " Oh yours has numbers, what to trade?"

Mike

The contract order for the Pistole 08 was made on Nov. 6 1908, and final details were approved by the Kriegsministerium on Dec. 2, 1908 (Still, Central Powers Pistols). It seems likely that not more than a relative handful were actually produced in 1908.

--Dwight

Valid observation Dwight. Joachim G�¶rtz in "Die Pistole 08" indicates that DWM had delivered 3000 pistols by 31 March 1909, and that thereafter DWM produced 21,000 pistols in the remainder of 1909.

I wish I had been that interested in history lessons in school back in the old days. :rolleyes:

I took the pistol comleatly apart today and cleaned and lubricaded every single part of it.

But a picture tells more than 1000 words ;)

http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4841.JPG
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4843.JPG
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4844.JPG
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4845.JPG http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4846.JPG
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4847.JPG

And finally one from the range last wednesday. The distance was 8 yrds.

http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/B...r/IMG_4830.JPG

Greetings
Ingvar

The only problem is that now i cant decide if i should clean up the grips and fix the missing part behind the safety or simply leave them untuched. :confused:

Help please !!!

Ingvar.

Pictures are nice, and give us something to gaze at. Caliber? Safety sear?
dju

Ingvarg,

The best woodworker I've ever met was from Iceland, his name was Engelbert Olafsson. I knew Ole when I worked in Long Beach, California. His stockwork was fantastic. Ole had worked for Roy Weatherby in the 1950's. I think some of his tools are displayed in a museum in Iceland.

Bob