Opinions on a 41/42 luger!
 

I''ve recently acquired a 41/42 luger, that is all matching and the bluing is about 95%. S.n. is 6106n. I assume that the 41 is the date that this pistol was manufactured. It has the 655 acceptance marks on the rt. side of the receiver and the E/S proof on the barrel, the receiver, and on the forward toggle link. The bore is very good and it has been fired, but the overall appearance of the pistol is close to excellent. There is a slight ding on the front left of the muzzle, but no major scratches and no signs of rust. Internally the piece looks like it might have been made last week. The grips are not numbered but do have the 655 proof marks. The magazine does not match, it is numbered 4182n with a +. It also has the number 122 stamped on the mag. frame and is proofed 37.
I'm a little concerned about the finish, does it look to be original or is it possibly refinished? I notice some of the plum color on the receiver and a slight amount on the barrel, which makes me lean toward original finish.
As always, I would appreciate any information that any of you would care to share. I have enclosed a couple of photos.
Thanks, barr.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/4142_lft.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/4142_rt.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/receiver_top.jpg

barr -- Pictures are too small to tell anything.

Plum color by itself does not mean much. Even some modern H&K P7 has plum or purple color, it's not a wartime-only feature. Inside looks newer than outside is a good sign, IMO.

barr,

Congrats on your new pistol! The pictures are in deed too small to say much about it. 42 is the production code for the Mauser factories. It very much looks refinished to me, but I'll leave it for somebody more knowledgeable than me to make a verdict.

Balder

Not only the size of the picture is important, the background and lighting makes big difference as well. I have two sample pictures here for the same gun (sorry, not Parabellums).... same big 1024x768 size, both are sharp, but reveal different level of details.

Which one should I post on an online auction site when I sell it..... maybe both.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/type542.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...ight_copy1.jpg

Sorry, I screwed up the photos. Here are some larger image files.
Alvin, I posted a photo of the back of the bolt for that 1920s commercial, that
you had asked about previously. It's under the commercial site. barr

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/right_1_copy1.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/right_1_copy2.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/right_1_copy2.jpg

barr, all three pictures are same. Have you checked the encircled area under a loupe?

I must have messed up again! Here is another try.
No, I have looked at this area under magnification, I'll check it.
Hope these work out better, thanks barr.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/left_1_copy1.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/right_1_copy3.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/top_copy15.jpg

Looks good to me but I am still a newbie. I lighten up your photos.

Jerry

more

again

I believe Alvin and Tac are correct. I believe it has been reconditioned, unfortunately. I hadn't noticed that area under the back of the upper frame, you have good eyes Alvin. I had noticed a little bit of pitting on the right side of the frame just above the trigger, that's why I had questioned the bluing. It was probably done several years ago, because it looks to have some age to it.
Well, like you say, it is still a nice looking piece, just a high dollar shooter, I suppose.
Thanks guys, I'll just have to pay more attention and use a light and some magnification on the next on. After looking at it more closely using a light and some magnification. I can see a lot to indicate that it has been re-blued.
barr

It may have been refinished, but if it has, it is more of a high quality restoration than your average refinish job. Usually a refinish isn't that crisp and uniform overall, and the fact that it has an interior that is in the same state of preservation as the exterior indicates it is an original or an expert restoration. I wouldn't write this one off too quickly. I would be much more satisfied if someone that knows Lugers well could examine this one in hand and not try to assess it from photos on a computer screen. It is a relatively scarce variation and deserves careful scrutiny. I agree with tac (even though I am not a real big fan of these "repros":D )

Again I thank you folks for your input. I guess I can write it off as a learning experience. From what I've read on the forum, it is somewhat of a rarer variation, so that being said and the fact that everything matches and even the magazine is correct for this variation, from what I have read, I suppose I didn't fare too badly. It is a nice looking restoration, next time I'll try and be more aware. Sometimes it does get difficult to be discriminating when it comes to buying things you like. I suppose desire gets in the way of intelligence. barr

Barr,
I have found a fool proof method of finding out if your Luger is refinished or not; find a very high powered light. I use an old 8mm home movie lamp, but I would suspect one of the more modern flashlights would work just as well. Shine it on the grip straps, both front and rear or any other part of the Luger you suspect has been refinished and then use a jewlers loupe to get a really close up look. If the finish is original you will see tiny specks of rust showing through the blue. If it has been refinished, there will be solid blue with no oxidation present. Give it a try.

Mike

There are a few areas that I feel suspectible. But I have not owned a Mauser Luger yet (if not counting repro of repro, a.k.a. Interarms :), it's in general:

1) The serrate head of the thumb safety looks worn, but the supposed "arc" under the safety is faint... almost does not exist.

2) The joint area of barrel and receiver is suspectible. The triangle shaped edge on receiver does not look sharp enough.

3) The muzzle band edge does not look sharp.

Alvin is probaly correct,plus there is no white paint in the Gesichert marking..

Mais Tac.....Vos deux Lugers Etait "Commande Special" direct de la usine ,fabriquer selon votre directive...n'est pas?....would,nt want that white paint reflecting in the moonlight on a covert mission....

Regardless, we should keep in mind it is a unique part of history, and it is still a Luger.

Yes, agree. Parabellum has a very special position in the gun world. It's interesting to notice many C&R shops have a seperate category "Lugers", and all other pistols regardless of types are called "Handguns"...... so it's not a gun anymore. Its position in the West is equivalent of Mauser in the East.

tac,
"Suspectible" is the future pluperfect subjunctive tense of "suspect";)

Alvin,
Your graphic observations are good and very likely correct. Excellent teaching points in any case. Thank you.

""Alvin is probaly correct,plus there is no white paint in the Gesichert marking..""

Can we have more information regarding this statment please.
Does it means that 1940 Lugers should have white in the Gesichert word?

Thank You all
alf

Again, I appreciate all the good information that you folks have provided.
Alvin, I did compare the 41/42 to a 38-S/42 and to a '40-42 and I couldn't discern much difference in the areas that you pointed out except for the barrel band which does seem to be more rounded on the 41/42. However, my eyes might not be as sharp as yours even with a magnifying glass. The area where the safety rotates probably doesn't show up in the image file, as distinctly as it actually is, there is a definite wear mark there. You have brought out some good areas to reference to though. I will definitely keep them in mind for any future buying sprees. I also notice with a bright light that you can see through the bluing to the metal, which also can be very meaningful, I just have to learn more about what I'm looking at. For what it's worth, both the '38-S/42 and the '40-42 have traces of white paint in the 'Gesichert' and they are both original finish. That's not say that paint was added at a later date, but from the looks of the finish on these two guns, I would doubt it.
Again, it's great to find such a well informed group of guys that are willing to share their knowledge and time. Thanks, a bunch, barr.

Alf....I have handled many Lugers (as a Dealer in them) and the majority of them that are in original condition have the white paint in the "GESICHERT"mark by the safety lever,even on well worn examples traces of the paint usually remain.....one of the 1st questions I ask a prospective seller on a phone transaction is whether or not there is white paint in that marking,a negative usually means it has been reblued... Sample photo from a 1940 Mauser attached

Thank you Lugercollector, another lesson learned. Another question is, when was this ( the white wordings ) introduced in the Luger production, is it for Mauser WWll only ?
Thank you for your time.
Alf.

From "Central Power Pistols" (Still, 2007), 1906 Army Test has "GESICHERT". The word is on the lower position. It's not mentioned the wording being white or not on that rare variation. I assume it is. The GESICHERT in the "normal" upper position became standard in 1908, and it's in white..... actually looks yellow/brown after so many years.

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It's also on 1906 Navy. Not sure which one was earlier.... 1906 Navy, or 1906 Army Test.

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Anyway, it's definitely not a Mauser nor WWII only feature.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm_copy3.jpg

Thank You All.
Alf.