Opinions on this shooter?
 

BYF 41 non-matching, seller claims excellent mechanical condition, $700. It's what I was looking for, a shooter from WWII with Nazi proofs. Is that price too high? How does the gun look? Opinions? Thanks guys.

Second pic:

It doesn't look abused to me, so may make a fine shooter.
Prices, have just gone crazy lately, I don't think $700 is all that bad. You could have a very long wait to find one in as good a shape and cheaper. They are out there but people are parting them out to make more money.

A couple of months ago I sold my two Erfurt shooters for $500 each, they were buffed/sanded to death guns with almost no finish left of the cold bluing that was once applied. They sold very quickly; sure I only had $400 and $450 into them and made a little money but I think I could of made more. Now I am without a shooter luger and am faced with much higher prices to replace them.

Do you have access to the gun?

Make sure your getting an action that is not binding, the barrel looks replaced to me and that is good for a shooter but if they twisted the frame getting the old one off, it will be a pain to get it straighten again and cost you more dollars.

Get a return policy.

They are not going to let you shoot it, but you will be able to quickly tell if there is sever binding by cycling the action by hand and inspecting for internal ware.

My two cents worth :)

Vern

If you're loking for a Luger with practically no investment potential, you seem to have found one. Prices are higher in the east, but around our area, that would be a pedigreed shooter priced at <$450. The escalating price of gasoline seems to be putting more guns on the market. My humble opinion would be to take in a gun show or two, and see what's available before spending that much on a candidate for a police evidence locker.

The upper receiver may be from a byf 41, but the lower receiver (grip frame) while manufactured by Mauser is not a 1941... the P.08 that is normally stamped on the left side flat is missing...

The grips are horrible and don't even match each other. The left side checkering looks like it was done by a convict with a contraband knife...

I think $700 is a little too high for this one... take the guy less in cash and see if he will deal. If it shoots okay, some new grips would perk up the image a little, but I would not invest any money in refinishing it.

Let us know how you make out.

John,

You're certainly a gentleman. I would classify this gun as a lot of loose parts flying in close formation. Assuming that the magazine catch is fully engaged, there seems to be an excessive gap between the magazine bottom and the frame. Whether this is due to wear on the magazine release and/or the slot in the magazine body is hard to tell, but it could indicate a feeding problem which hopefully, didn't result in "throating."My opinion is that any money invested on improvements would ony compound a a situation in which the price is at least twice the realistic value of the gun. I strongly agree that cash can work wonders and I wish him luck.

I would ask to test fire it, I would not buy any used gun without that permission.....if it functions well, $700 is about as good as its going to get on a shooter...

Policeluger,

Are you paying $700 for "shooter" Lugers? Please let me know.

How interesting this difference in opinions on prices for shooter lugers!

All I can say is, if members have nice shooter lugers they will part with in the $400 to $500 range please place adds here on the forum, we have new members who are looking to get into the hobby and want to start off with a good shooter.

Those guns I got rid of just recently didn't look this good, they were bad, and they went fast!

Vern

Vern,

I know that prices are higher on the coasts, but there was a decent matching DWM with a rough but shootable bore walking around at the last big Tulsa show for $700, asking. Guess maybe I'm picky, but if it doesn't match, it's just parts to me and not worth the paperwork. About the only guns that bring any money around here are Colt SAA's and Winchesters and they frequently go to people from out of state. Shooter Lugers here don't bring much. Perhaps they're good trading material after all.

Shooter Luger...
 

The whole shooter Luger idea is an interesting study in value... First, it has to have a certain negitive degree of faults or condition to even enter this arena.... While matching numbers are always desirable, if it is a shooter, some serious cosmetic flaw, or lack of condition has already rendered this point to be nearly moot... So lets take the very best case scenario for a shooter, either a very nice original condition, either matching or non-matching... with, lets say a big nasty rust spot on the grip frame, or receiver.. I only used this for an example because I think we all hate rust equally... The pistol, to me, at this point, is only worth the retail value of the sum total of it's sellable / useable parts.... so lets break it down.... 75.00 to 100.00 for each the barrel, grips, sideplate, clip, frame and/or receiver, and small parts... maybe 125.00 for the toggle train... give or take 25.00 here and there depending on condition... it would seem that around $700.00 would be near the top end for any 4" barrel shooter, everything being pretty nice... Now, lets take a gun that is all buffed, reblued, rusted, or otherwise ugly to all but its mother! The parts can barely used for what they are now doing... it would seem that even $400.00 is a lot to ask?? I opted for a nice shooter, all made from byf parts, that were also nice... some assemblies match, some don't, but condition is all important to me..My shooter probably is at the $700.00 mark... but I would find it hard to ask more if I was going to sell... just a little different way to look at it, best to all, til...lat'r....GT ;)

I must say, it's absolutely amazing how knowledable you guys are to be able to pick this gun apart with just two pictures. Per the seller, it only has two different serial numbers on it, so it doesn't sound like a total mismatch.

Grips would be the first thing to go. Are new grips expensive and hard to come by? How would you rate the finish on this gun compared to other shooters? I'll see what I can do with the price, but it sounds like I shouldn't lose too much sleep if this one falls through. I just got my first Luger book in the mail today, i'm trying to learn as much as I can asap so I don't have to post every Luger i'm interested in for you guys to critique for me :D

And yes, if anyone has a decent shooter they want to let go, let me know! --> phatrick88@yahoo.com

Thanks guys!

well we see how many listed their shooters in the 4/500 range....no I do not own a shooter grade, my collection is all Weimar police, 100% matching with each of the guns having at least one matching mag and some two, not not forced match but as technical correct and righteous as one can find, there are two major Weimar police Luger book in the works, and both writers are using my collection as part of the study...I but shooter when I find them and supply several local gun shops with such.....anybody with 4/500$$ shootes for sale that are worth a darm....

phatrick88,

After all, you did solicit opinions. In addition to grips, you'll need grip screws as well. The grips may require some fitting. Assuming that everything else functions, at $700 + tax, etc. and improvements, you will have invested a considerable amount into a shooter. Enjoy!

I usually do not jump into discussions of value, but in this case I have to agree with Vern... "I don't think $700 is all that bad. You could have a very long wait to find one in as good a shape and cheaper". There is no way this gun only worth half the asking price, and in this day and age a $400 shooter (i.e. one that will really shoot and isn't a total bucket of rust) is a myth unless you happen to stumble across an unsuspecting widow with one at a yard sale. I would rather see this one at $600, but 6 months to a year from now it is going to seem like a bargain.

I found a matching byf 41 in about 92% original condition for approximately the price of the Frankenluger being discussed at the llast Colorado Gun Collectors show and I wasn't the first dealer to look at it. An elixir of time and a tincture of patience can be invaluable assets when contemplating a collector firearm purchase. Junk is junk and will always be junk, I respect my fellow collectors too much to ever advise them to buy junk.

Just as an aside. I just bought an import marked, (AIG, Miami, Fl)1940 date 42 toggle Luger and a mint, matching AC41 P38. Both for $800.
Unusual circumstances, granted. The owner was an aquaintance who was moving back to Argentina.
The Luger is a dipped blue, (with almost no buffing), all matching on major components, with a forced side plate, serial # 6226H. The sear and safety have had the serials "dimpled out" and the grips are non-matching a a bit ratty. The best part is the gun shoots beautifully with both the accompanying mag, (B code and Waamt655, but serial buffed out) and ALL the aftermarket mags I have tried in it.
The best part of the deal was the P38. Deep original blue with SHARP, markings, down to the smallest waamts. Three digit code AC41 gun with really beautiful , red wine colored bakelite stocks.
I think the P38 alone was worth the price of admission.
It just goes to show that deals still come along...

Make that a "GAI, MIA, FL" marked Luger....

Shooter...
 

Hello to all, No-one understands the value of patients and time better then a serious firearms collector... But with that being said, you can wait a lifetime for the right pistol, woman, or car to come around... And miss alot of fun cuz you only wanted a screaming bargain!! :o I think the Luger pictured has quite a'bit going for it, and I'll throw in with Ron on this one and say it's probably worth the asking price... IF!!! You want a nice one to shoot.... "Want" is the key word in this equasion ... To sum it up, I've spent one hell of a lot more for one hell of a lot less.... But... I got better?? :jumper: best to all, til...lat'r...GT

So, how do you guys feel it would compare to this one as a shooter? Obviously is a mismatch, claimed excellent bore and shoots fine with 90% bluing.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...k88/luger1.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...k88/luger2.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...k88/luger3.jpg

I didn't want to start a new thread for this same topic...

Thanks guys.

I like the 1939 better, good grips and better resale potential.

Is the price the same or almost the same?

If so buy it

another 2 cents :)

Vern

This Luger at least displays well. That alone, positively affects resale value, especially if all components are of original manufacture and functional. This being the case and price being comparable, I'd go for it if you're in a hurry. Even a Chicago strip'n dip has eye appeal as long as it's marketed as such and as we all know, pretty sells. There are plenty of parts guns walking around at shows, or usually on the same tables but the bargains in investor guns are still out there. All it takes is knowledge base, perseverence and a little hard work to find them. Our most reputable dealers earn their livelihoods on this basis. The mentoring of beginning collectors requires sound advice and above all, an ethical approach.

Past President, Collector Arms Dealers Association

Just a few observations on this latest set of photos on a new candidate purchase.

This 1939 should have an S/42 Toggle. The byf toggle probably goes with the grip frame which is late 1940 till the end of production by Mauser in 1942. Notice the "P.08" on the left flat side of the grip frame that was missing from the first gun you displayed...

...and so goes your second lesson at Luger university! :)

John W.

I agree with you that we need not send poor messages to new collectors.
So what kind of message do we send to a shooter? To me its (Get in and out as cheap as possible and still get reliability and resale value)

Two different situations completely. Two different purposes. Two different thought processes.

As a collector and shooter I look at things even a 3rd way. I don't buy shooters that are not all matching, because I know that even if I refinish the gun there are a new breed of collectors who will jump at the chance to buy an all matching pretty gun. I edge my bets, to make sure I get most of my money back when I decide to sale.

So, I am still waiting for someone to post the all matching $500 shooter, with great grips, strong bluing and nice straw :)

I am just pulling your leg John, honestly I am not disagreeing with you. Was your first luger an all matching gun?

John S.

I noticed the same thing. Interesting that he is looking at guns with similar mismatches.

Vern

Yes, my first Luger was an all matching byf 41 with a large patch of bluing missing from the upper receiver and toggle areas... I bought it from the vet who brought it home. The blueing was missing because the soldier who he acquired it from had died with blood running down his arm, over his hand and across the top of this Luger. I paid him $100 cash for the pistol, a Schmeisser police magazine, and wooden bottom mag with a chipped bottom, and a 1941 holster and tool. I immediately sent it off to be blued to make it "pretty". I eventually regretted that, but what is done is done.

...30+ years later I traded the entire rig (less the Schmeisser Mag) even to a forum member for a like new Springfield Armory M1A, with a ton of accessories. A gun I had always wanted but never could afford... I took basic training in the Army with M-14 in 1967.

Here is what my first Luger looked like after I had it refinished... it was a TACK DRIVER!

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/byf41r.jpg

Wow! That was a pretty one John.
I like M1A 's also, so I understand why you made the trade.


Vern

JS- that's a beautiful gun. How much did you pay, or would you pay in todays dollars, to have a gun reblued like that??