East German loading tool
 

Hello!

I`ve been buying East German magazines and grips and other stuff for a shooter. Especially the mags are very good.

Some time ago I bought a tool from Germany and I was told that it is DDR production. It is in vg condition and the "front side" is checkered. That is supposed to make it East German.
I haven`t seen a tool like this anywhere before. Are these rare or have I just been blind while hunting down the parts?

jussi

Hi,

The East German loading tools have a number of grooves running over the bottom of the lip.

Please post a photo of this 'checkering' you mention. Thanks.

Not the best quality scans, but they ought to do the trick:

This is a typical East-German configuration (ignore the stamp, have no clue what it is or who put it there. Looks imperial but that's quite improper for a post-1945 tool)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/loading_vopo1.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/loading_vopo2.jpg

Jussi, At one time Sarco was selling DDR loading tool here in the USA for around $20 each, but they are now sold out, so these are becoming more difficult to find. No too much demand from collectors, but like the mags, they work well. TH

I'm waiting for an order from Sarco to arrive. Keep missing Lugerdoc's good deals on magazines, so I ordered a "Rare Code 2/1001" milled body magazine. Also ordered an "ORIGINAL FINNISH "SA" MARKED LUGER TAKE DOWN" tool.

WGD, Sorry but I've been sold out of the DDR made extruded mags for some time. I question the authenticity of Sarco's "SA" marked loading tools. You may want to post a photo of your, to get some feed back from our Scandinavian membership. TH

Thank you all!

I`ll try to get a picture of the tool for you soon.
If someone is looking for those 2/1001 mags, check this place:

http://www.egun.de/market/index.php

I have made some good deals there.

jussi

Trying to add a picture here...

No luck! The pic size is ok, but I don`t know how to attach it.
:(
Can you give me advice?

jussi

Well, finally!



http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/east1.jpg

Made it easier to look at:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/east1.jpg

You're probably right. The texture on the loading tool has been reported to be associated with East-German production, but the accounts I read mentioned this texture on the back side of the tool, not on the front.

And I thought that mine is an original tool because it has a stamp that looks like an Erfurt inspection mark
Alf:banghead:

Alf,
I showed you mine. Now show me yours :D

jussi

Well, I consider East-German tools to be 'original tools', as they were made by a valid military P08 using nation for functionality.

Just like the postwar Mauser Parabellum loading tools, that came with the guns, these are originals in their own right as well.

My Sarco order arrived. The magazine seems very well made and heavy. Marked 2/1001 on the side, aluminum base marked 6849 with a 2 above. Should be a serviceable magazine until I can find a more correct magazine for my 41 byf.

The tool looks like it was made last week. ;) Don't have a digital camera so no pic. I have to find a magnifying glass. Looks like there is a faint SA in a box, and to the right of the SA there's a mark that looks like a large 7, with maybe some faint mark under the part of the 7 at the top going to the left.

:) Here it is, I hope it is clear enough.
Alf

Gentlemen, This loading tool was made at the Veb Ernst Thalmann Werk, at the Sauer/Haenel plant-1957/58. I suspect the marking you indicate might be an Erfurt is spurious. As Gerben says..it does not belong there on a post war tool.
Page 292 of Eugene Benders Luger Holsters & Accessories.
This is what reference books are for....

Jerry Burney

Thanks Jerry. At least now I know what I have and a bit more wiser:D
Alf

Alf, Difficult to tell from your photo, but the mark on your tool could be a DDR Crown/N, but why they would put a proof mark on a tool, is beyond me. TH

Texture
 

Hi Gerben and all, the texture on either the front or back is just a matter of random parts getting flipped over prior to the next operation... this is also true of pre 45 made tools as well, I think there was a conscious effort to have the radiused side up when the tool was formed, but occasionally they came through up-side down, and I'm sure after making a few hundred tools, the thrill was gone... Best to all, til....lat'r....GT

Re: Texture
 

G.T. Thanks for the info, but, what do you mean " when the parts get flipped over to the next operation " what makes the texture? acutally how these tools were made by forging, milling or cutting ?
Alf:confused:

tool manufacture
 

Hi Alf, I probably should have made that a bit more clear, I will try to explain how the Luger tools differ from side to side throughout production... I will call on my good friend Sam Buscemi to correct me if my steel terminology is incorrect.. But here goes, as far as i can tell by studying the tools closely over the years, they start out as a sheet, coil, or ribbon of flat or straightened cold rolled steel of the correct thickness, probably low carbon steel so the material is easy on tools & dies, and is also easily formed.. Next the sheet steel is run thru a punch press so that the basic overall shape and tool uniformity is maintained, in short they are punched out at a very rapid rate and this is what gives the tool the different textures and radius on each edge and the top and bottom sides.. meaning that the sheet will have (could have) different texture on each side, and the radiused edge will show from which side they were punched.. I am not sure when they punch or machine in the hole, or form the bent end, but either one of these operations would dedicate the tool to a certain side being top, or bottom from that point forth.... The rest of the secondary operations are performed, machined lengthwise slot, screw driver tip, hole lip, etc. and the tool gets a short heat treat of some kind, (or none!) and it's off to the tumbler and phosphating bath... They were made really fast, again by probably the same guy from the start... and he had good days and bad days...same as me! :) I hope this helps answer your question...Best to you, til...lat'r....GT

A very clear explanation. Thank You G.T.
Alf:cheers:

War Years?
 

Hi Alf, I have a question for you, did the British, or allies leave a lot of items there during the war??.. I know Malta was awarded the George Cross, as a group, for holding out during the war... But where do you find Lugers and such on an island like that?, and what are your laws on posession of such?? Best to you, til...lat'r...GT

Hi GT, To your first question Yes the British left lots of stuff and when I was a boy in the scouts we used to buy ex army stuff for our camping and climbing etc. Now it is not so easy to find anything, it is a long time since the British left, it was in March 31, 1979.
For a small island like ours you be amazed how many guns there are, mostly are inherted from family to family, some keep them for decoration, others are collectors like me, mostly we buy from people that inherted some guns but does not want to keep them. The main source is to buy from abroad through internet acutions or as I sometimes do, go to Germay, Kassel fair and buy from there.
We are not bad with our laws, regard collecting as long as you have a collector licence you can buy anthing as long as it is pre 1946, even full auto:D
For target shooting we are allowed 10 modern guns to shoot, any caliber.
Regards.
Alf