Simson P08 Replacement Barrels
 

As some of you may know, my research has led me to the conclusion that the Prussian Landj�¤gerei had unmodified LP08s until they were replaced in 1929-30 with newly manufactured P08s. Surviving documents indicate the old LP08s were to be returned to the Polizeischule f�¼r Technik und Verkehr (PTV) in Berlin where I believe they were reworked to become P08s and reissued to various police units including the Schupo, Gemeindepolizei and Landj�¤gerei. Since the Landj�¤gerei did not mark its pistols until after the 1929 rearming, the only police markings on these reissued P08s are those of their new owners.

Most of the reissued P08s seem to be 1918 DWMs but other dates are also seen. They have the receiver cut for an LP08 tangent sight and PTV/E stamps on their replacement barrels. Many of the replacement barrels were apparently purchased from Simson and have one or two Simson E/6 stamps as well as a single-digit number such as 3, 4, 5, etc. stamped on them. These numbers have been discussed on the forums and, to my knowledge, their meaning has been unknown. I think I may have the answer.

I have not studied this in depth but in every instance I can recall where these barrels also have the bore measurement stamped on them (8,83, 8,84, etc.), the single digit matches the last digit of the bore diameter. I have drawn the tentative conclusion that these numbers reflect the barrel bore dimension.

I will appreciate information from forum members with Simson replacement barrels that will either confirm or refute this theory.

Surely, someone on this forum has or knows of examples of this.

1918 DWM w/Simpson Replacement
 

Recently purchased a 1918 DWM that has the Simpson replacement barrel as you have described. It has the LP08 front site cut out, the PTV mark, the RC and the Simpson stamp on the barrel. All of the internal numbered parts match as does one of the mags. The bore mark on the bottom of the barrel has a 8.83 with a 4 stamped above it (sorry Don). The rig came from a local Navy WWII vet with a great 1939 holster and one matching mag with a sun burst over k stamp below the serial number.

John, no apologies are warranted. This is the nature of research. I can always come up with a new theory! See the posts on Jan Still's forum: http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15005

Don, I gave you at least one PVT of mine, it is a 1917/1920 cut receiver, I am a bit laid up and can not access my safe or collection.....if you need more info please email me and we'll see if my wife can help us out and get to the collection....

Don, my apoligies also. I think if I look at all the police lugers I have, I may have any that fit your criteria. I will try to check the next couple of days, pull them out, etc.


Ed

Never mind!
 

It appears my theory that the single digits on Simson replacement barrels indicated bore measurements is WRONG! In my database, I stumbled on a reworked 1915 DWM LP08 with Simson proofs on the barrel, the number 5 and the bore diameter 8,83. This is too great a discrepancy to explain as measurement differences. I apologize for dragging this red herring across the forum.

Don, I will still take a look at the guns I have. I think I have 3 new police that I have not looked over closely and two in "inventory".



ed

Hi:

My 1917 police rework was originally a DWM LP-08.

It has a replacement Simpson barrel with bore dimensions but no 4 or 5 stamp.

Sieger

Howard, Sorry to hear that you are under the weather... I will keep you in my daily prayers... Hope you are better soon.

Don,

I have a DWM Weimar Navy property marked 1917/1920 Simson rework with an E/O E/5 marked barrel. Bore gauge is 8,83.

Ron

Guys, you can call off the hunt. My theory has gone down in flames. Thanks very much to all of you.

Not a problem... Let us know if there's anything else we can do to disappoint you. ;)

Ron, you'll be the first one I'll come to!:roflmao:

Don et al, The theory that I've heard for years, it that the single digit on the barrel indicates the year of rework, based on 192x (x being the single digit. TH

Don,

Tom's reply sounds good. I would tend to think that it's good possibiliy.

How close is your book?

Ron

Tom, the problem with that theory is that the numbers on the barrels and the "Simson proofs" were stamped before bluing while the PTV, serial number and 8,8X were stamped after bluing, at the time of the rework. I don't see how Simson could have anticipated the date their barrels would be used by the armory.

If the digit does represent a date, it is probably the year the barrel was manufactured by Simson. Maybe Ed can tell us if that makes sense.

Ron, I am hoping its copyright date will be 2008 but I still have work to do.

Don,

Keep me on the list for a copy.

There's a high probability that I would survive a "book slide" in the event of an earthquake, so I need more books.

Ron

Ron, I have you listed for a dozen. Did I err?

Not sure if this helps or not as my research is more aligned to Gewehr98/98b study, but Simson Suhl supplied replacement barrels to the German ordnance system as well as utilized them for their own reworking and production (Gew.98 mit s. S. Visiere & Kar98b)
Of the many dozen Gewehr98's with reworked Simson provided barrels no such indicator or number shows up.. usually just the Simson commercial logo, blank supplier/lot (usually Krupp as per IMKK regs), Weimar f/p, bore measurement on the shoulder and serial/usual acceptance observed on Simson products (which varies by date/range e/6 e/81 e/33 e/76 e/43 etc.. e/6 the only constant).
I'd suspect this marking more in line with your PTV facility than any Simson origin?

Hi Paul,

Thanks very much for your comments. I have to admit that I know nothing about rifles and their refurbishments. Nor, for that matter, do I know much about Simson. However, in all of the cases I have seen where the information is available, the "Simson" acceptances and the single digit were stamped before bluing while the PTV/E, serial number and bore measurement have halos indicating they were stamped after bluing. Unless the Simson barrels were provided to the Berlin armory in the white and were blued there, I don't see how the single digits could have been stamped by the PTV.