Luger Target Trigger Modification
 

Improve the trigger pull on your shooter Luger by installing trigger stop and slack adjusting screws.


The top adjustment, which is a #2-56 Allen set screw, is designed to take up the small but annoying amount of slack that is present in the linkup between the trigger and the trigger bar. Although it will do so, this screw is NOT designed to adjust sear engagement. If sear engagement is altered by turning this screw in too far, the trigger bar plunger will not reengage the trigger bar when the trigger is released, which will put the gun out of action. The lower #4-40 Allen screw functions as a standard trigger-stop.


By installing these adjustment screws, the total length of trigger travel can be cut from over 1/8" to a hair over 1/16", with practically zero backlash. Once you have the screws set properly, a small drop of Locktite on each will insure less frequent adjustment.


The first of the attached pictures show the adjustment screws mounted in a 1970's era Mauser Luger trigger. The next two pictures show the trigger stop screw mounted in a standard Luger trigger.


In future installments, I will describe how to smooth and lighten your Luger's trigger SAFELY to obtain a smooth 2# trigger pull.












http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/targettrigger3.jpg

Re: Luger Target Trigger Modification
 

Thanks Hugh, I have several .22 target pistols that have very similar stops. This might be an excellent mod for that 'spare' trigger, just in case you have a matched pistol that you want to keep matching. If you look around at gunshows there are usually some parts guys who aren't trying to retire by selling Luger parts. eBay is actually bad for spare parts (often closing out at the price of a whole pistol). Just my opinion..your mileage may vary.

Re: Luger Target Trigger Modification
 

This is great.


I'll be the first to raise my hand and say that a crisp trigger pull makes all the difference in the world to the accuracy of a Luger. Some previous owner had done a hack job to the trigger lever of the last shooter I bought--I didn't recognize the import of what they had done until I shot it, and I'm not sure I'd recommend that anybody else do it--(notice that I'm not saying what "it" is, because I really think it is not a good idea)


BUT


there is almost no slack to take up in the trigger pull, and offhand at 50 feet it shoots groups two or three times tighter than my other Lugers. It is the trigger pull which makes all the difference, I can tell when I simply touch off the round. The gun is otherwise a completely ordinary, unremarkable, average shape 1923 Commercial.


--Dwight

Thanks, Hugh.
 

I agree with Bill; this would make an interesting modification for a SPARE trigger. Since only the trigger is modified, it could be discarded if the operation didn't work out well. I have a 6" shooter which is really an excellent Luger, mechanically; but, as with all Lugers, the trigger pull is less than optimum. Might be worth a try.


Tom Heller probably has spare triggers.


Would hope that anyone trying this will post a record of their success/failure for the rest of the group.

Nice work Hugh! Thanks for the photos of your handiwork! (EOM)
 

second variant
 

The triggerstop can also be archived by adjusting the triggerpull in a manner that the trigger stops against the frame when the gun fires.

The good thing about this is you never have a problem with selfadjusting screws and other funny things.


But I am using triggerstops on other guns, but on the luger I have always used the frame instead.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

Re: Nice work Hugh! Thanks for the photos of your handiwork!
 

Thanks, I've got an Anshutz .22 (Mod 1451?) with an adjustment exactly like what you did. I had to loosen it back up because it was messing me up with my other guns. Had an AK once that you could nearly pass out from lack of oxygen trying to shoot. Had a trigger pull from here to Texas.


Roadkill

Re: Long Trigger Pull
 

The method Hugh describes and trigger photos come from a May 1974 "Shooting Times" article pages 28,29 and 30 by Mike Gorman. The piece was directed at work on a 1970s Mauser. The methods work fine on other Lugers. I have refered to the article and reworked fireing pins for a number of years with good success. Polishing bearing surfaces as described in the article also helps a bit. The small screws in trig help. My experience has been--that adjusting the slack take up screw is a bit tricky. Remove too much slack and sear does not catch when fired even though it may work fine when action is worked by hand. Perhaps someone [maybe me] would scan the article and forward to seriously intersted guys.

Re: Long Trigger Article
 

Art,


I wonder what it would take to be able to repring the article on the Forum? I sure wold like to read that one myself.


Marvin

Hugh, the photos that were associated with this old thread that I just revived have evidently 'expired' ... so would you mind reposting the photos for this thread. We have some new members who have inquired about Luger trigger adjustments.

Thanks!


Does any member have the article that Art Buchanan mentioned... he hasn't reregistered since we changed forum format...

I would be looking forward to it...

Thanks a bunch!

John,

I can't find those pictures in my files. However, I do have the article on my computer and will be happy to email it to any one requesting it. My email is hhclark@wildblue.net

Since then, I have determined that if you don't want to drill holes in your trigger, you can make minor improvements in the length of pull and sear engagement by SLIGHTLY bending the front tang of the trigger outward and/or VERY SLIGHTLY bending the trigger lip that engages the trigger lever downward. This will shorten the "free travel". Use caution however, as too much bending will cause the sear to fail to engage the firing pin. Do not attempt to bend the trigger lever, as you will just end up with a broken one. THEY DON'T BEND!

Thanks Hugh email me the article please. You should have my email address.

I have the article and have emailed it to several members. I have been reluctant to post it here as I am not sure about copyright issues. Also, the images are full magazine page size and even though I have gotten the .jpg file size to 230Kb each and still quite legible, I am not sure how they would look on a forum page.

Any chance we can ressurect this page? I'm sure there is valuable information here, but all the illustrations of it are MIA (for me at least)

I should add that i am particularly interested in that 2 pound trigger pull.

I also would be interested in the pics/article.

If you Email me the jpegs, I can create a compressed PDF file.

Marc

I suppose after 28 years no one will get their knickers in a wad if I post .jpg images of the Shooting Times article on trigger adjustment. They are a bit fuzzy but I think they are OK for folks that have enough gunsmithing skills. If you can't grasp what the procedure is, you probably shouldn't be messing with the gun in the first place. I assume absolutely no liability for any modifications to any Luger using this aricle...it is provided for information purposes only and should not be attempted by anyone other than a qualified and licensed gunsmith.

Good article.

My 1937 S/42 had a very, very strong trigger spring in it, which forced me to build up so much pressure that I would twist the gun slightly sideways and downwards. Quite annoying. A simple fix was the installation of a softer (Swiss 06/29) trigger spring. Made a world of difference.

So before bringing out the drills, taps and screws, try the simple approach first :)

Way to go, Ron! Take a walk on the wild side... :thumbup:

*************************************************************

In that article's first page, the upper pic of a Luger barrel...What model/make Luger is that??? Is that the Mauser (with a 6" barrel) that the author was referring to???

I should have posted that after I took a nap...it has been 38 years since the article was published. :)

Excellent! Thank you! Any chance you can Re-post this article in a fresh thread and have it stickied? That would be invaluable for all current and future members.

Making a Luger trigger mimic that of an M1911 is a fool's errand. In effect, this method eliminates the first stage of the trigger action that was designed and built in a two stage pattern. It is an unsafe procedure that cannot be recommended under any circumstances.

Saved the article just because I save info and data against future need. I do not think I will try this mod, it is not like I can replace things on a matching serial numbered 1900 model. But good stuff to know.

Someone had done this to my 29/70 Mauser. I carefully straightened it out to regain the famous mile-long pull!

I challenge that statement. What evidence do you have to support any of that?

I would hardly qualify the Luger as having a "two stage" trigger. A proper two stage trigger divides the total pull between the two stages, requiring a greater and longer pull in the first stage, and requiring a shorter but much lighter (not to mention crisp) pull in the second. The Luger's pull consists of taking the slack out f the mechanism, which takes a couple ounces, and then the full 7-8lbs in the last bit of movement. I also fail to see how such modifications are unsafe when done properly. If the instructions are followed to a T and the user does not over adjust the trigger to break on a hair, the pistol should work perfectly fine and be 100% safe. I'm sure Herbert Werle does a very similar procedure to this, and he seems to enjoy a very good reputation, both here and abroad.

Please Google "Druckpunkt Parabellum".

I'm not sure I understand. Clearly the Swiss devised a method to improve the trigger pull of their Lugers. I cannot and will not argue the effectiveness and relative merits of their modification. However, that does not explain why the method described in the article is inherently wrong or dangerous. It simply seems like another way to skin a cat. If done properly, with great care and attention, as well as the proper tools, I cannot see how it would be any less effective than what the Swiss devised.

Both DWM and W+F Parabellum factory manuals identify the trigger pull as possessed of a Druckpunkt, i.e. two staged. We could go on to talk sear engagement geometry, but I'm quite happy to rest my case on this appeal to the bona fide supreme Luger authority. The distinct stages are especially noticeable on Swiss M1929 Lugers.

I'm just saying that in my limited experience with Luger the trigger has not resembled anything close to a two stage pull. Maybe it was and I just didn't feel it, I don't know. It just felt heavy, period. Regardless, you have not even attempted to defend your original statement that "It is an unsafe procedure that cannot be recommended under any circumstances". How is it unsafe and why would you not recommend it? If properly executed by a competent machinist, what specific procedure renders the modifications unsafe?As to the elimination of the first stage; so what? Just because something is or was designed as such, does not make it right or better than anything else. Why can't a well tuned Luger trigger emulate that of a well tuned 1911? Unless you plan on illustrating why these modifications are dangerous, I see no reason for you to bother mentioning it.

I'm more than happy to listen to a counter argument, but arguing something based on status quo simply does not fly.

Because a striker fired pistol requires a broader safety margin in sear engagement, than a hammer fired one.

luger trigger pull..
 

take up isn't undesirable or critical, and as mentioned earlier, probably only a few ounces... probalby need not be addressed for any purpose?? Over travel is probably not wanted.. especially excessive.. I'm pretty sure most lugers don't suffer from this anyway.. most of the ones i have had broke clean at the far end of the trigger travel anyway... But, that being said... Pull weight reduction is probably important, and also a crisp sear break, which probably will require some part modification. ...???... That's where one needs to dwell... two distinct stages are necessary in a Luger.. Not really a two stage trigger... :eek:,,, Want to spend some time, it can be done.. Probably as good as any in a one off situation.. Hard to beat the 1911 in this arena. But, I happen to like Lugers...:cheers:..Best to all, til...lat'r...GT:jumper::jumper:

I am not sure what you are saying, but in the terminology of the article under discussion, the mutually bearing surfaces of the trigger bar and the firing pin are cut at an angle so as to interlock, for reasons of safety. If anyone here is foolish and reckless enough to try this modification at home, I'm willing to bet that I can fire his modified Luger without touching its trigger.

sear engagement..
 

Hi Michael... well, to keep it short.. a'lot can be done in just the sear notch location.. keeping it a 90% as designed, polished, build up.. cut back, shortened, lengthened, what ever suits the unique demands that each Luger would require.. I'm not saying is SHOULD be done..:eek:.. I'm just saying it could be done... And, of course, a luger with .020" slop between the cannon ass'y and frame would not be a cantidiate for this type of work!!! ...:eek:... As mentioned earlier.. it just takes a crap pot full of parts, and time, and money, and all three escape me! ... :eek:.. I've seen it before.. in just about evey thing i ever tried to compete in.. :)....Best to you Michael, til...lat'r...GT

I won't argue with anything of that, Gerald. All I can say is that the best Luger trigger pull I have experienced is on a factory target pistol with a stock sear geometry. Here is a record I made with a Lyman electronic trigger gauge, of trigger pull averaged over 10 measurements:

• 7.63x25mm Borchardt C93 SN 1774: 2.59kg
• 9mm Para Krieghoff P08 SN 3249: 3.48kg.
• 7.65mm Para W+F P06/1929 National Match SN 59951: 2.64kg
• 7.65mm Para W+F P06/1929 National Match SN 65721: 2.15kg
• 7.65mm Para W+F P06/1929 SN 71644: 3.80kg
• 7.65mm Para W+F P06/1929 SN 77493: 2.57kg
• 9mm Para SIG P49 SN A204931: 2.88kg
• 9mm Para SIG P49 SN A156213: 2.90kg
• 9mm Para SIG P49 SN A107159: 2.75kg
• 9mm Para SIG P49 SN A105553: 2.56kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-2 SN P74064: 1.86kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-1 SN P77209: 1.94kg
• 7.65mm Para SIG P210-6HF SN P79103: 1.24kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-6HF SN P79136: 1.82kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-6HF SN P79608: 1.20kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-6HF SN P79609: 1.23kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-2 SN P79980: 1.67kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-6 SN P86618: 1.78kg

All are double pull, with a very crisp stage transition (Druckpunkt). You can tell which guns have been resprung.