1893 Loewe Borchardt
 

1893 Loewe Borchardt

Serial #814, mag unmatched, #120.
No stock or holster.
Serial is on the side of the trigger, and on the bottom of the frame, next to the mag well.

This is amongst the first thousand Borchardts made, by the earliest maker, Waffenfabrik Loewe, Berlin.
BUG proofs on barrel, BU on receiver, breech block also marked, but I did not open the action to get pics.
D.R.P. 75837 is the Patent number.

Gun shows a bit of honest wear, I would rate it at 90% finish.
Straw parts look good, but the fire blued parts are a strikingly beautiful shade.
Back of the mag release button, extractor, and all screws are in brilliant fire blue.

I am not brave enough to field strip this one, sorry, and I even cringe at jacking it open.

A beautiful and rare species, Borchardts are the first semi-auto, mag fed handguns to go into production in the world.

Georg Luger "borrowed" and refined the toggle action from the Borchardt to design the Luger.
Borchardt had "borrowed" the toggle joint from the Maxim machine gun, although the toggle is internal on the Maxim.

As unwieldy as this gun appears, it actually balances pretty well in your hand.
This surprised me.
I understand that this is the Holy Grail of Luger collections, and I am suitably impressed enough by this 115 year old bit of workmanship to see why.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/2_copy16.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/7_copy8.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/3_copy12.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/8_copy9.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/5_copy11.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/13_copy5.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/9_copy5.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/16_copy5.jpg

Anna -- I'm very impressed. You have my dream gun! So beautiful.

Thanks Alvin, a few more pics.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/20_copy4.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/14_copy4.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/32_copy4.jpg

ahhh, a dream gun, very nice. If I can pick one up or a reblue as an example, I will get one, but otherwise, there are others out there i want.


ed

Great gun! Great pictures!

You continue to trot out the goodies and this one is very special! It is a bit lower number than my #897. I have been tracking Borchardt serial numbers for years and yours is one that I had not previously recorded. So now it has been added to the list and becomes a recorded part of history...thank you!

Thank you, Ed, Heinz, Ron, very nice of you to post.

I know there are some Borchardt owners on the board, but there are also possibly many that have not seen detail shots of one of these rare old birds.
I primarily posted to let the newer folks have a closer look at this beast, and for comparisons with other people's Borchardts.
I did a search through some of the older posts, and had not seen one of these examined closely.

And yeah, maybe a bit of Show and Brag. ;)

Thanks again.

...shall we see you again, reflected in the bluing or in the mirror finish of this astonishing beauty ? :)

How kind of you to ask, but no, sorry.

A Parisian "lady killer", so to speak? ;)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_tango.jpg

right, he is Parisian, the lady is lover to death :)

Shoot it! That's what it was made for.

Shoot it! That's what it was made for. Easy to say when you are not risking your own money..However, if it were mine I would have to shoot just one round.
Regardless of that..It is a gorgeous piece of history. I would dearly love to have one someday too. This one Anna shows is a very nice example!
Thanks for showing it off!
Jerry Burney

Anna,

Classic example of honest patina on a gun finish of over 110 years old.

Beautiful gun...thanks for sharing it with us all !

Some sellers of late hope to convince us guns such as these are original finish...;)

http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp...erms=borchardt

http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp...erms=borchardt

Watch it, Anna, Christian is trying flirt with you!! If you need to defend yourself against his charm, I would recommend a DWM 480C (9 mm) cartridge!!!

I have some French blood in me, and I can see French charm coming in at 100 yds!!

Albert

Anna,

Thanks very much for the closeup pictures, they are very enlightening. You might consider taking one more, turn the gun upside down and show us one of the strangest features of these, guns, the radically offset trigger.

--Dwight

Yes, that is a weird design indeed, Dwight.
Hope this shows the asymmetrical offset well enough.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/12_copy6.jpg

Again I thank you for sharing this very beautiful borchardt, and the pics are great. The only Borchardt I handled was 2 years ago at a fair in Kassel, I nearly made a deal, but I took too long to decide, and lost it. :mad:

Alf.

What's the technical reason bebind the offset trigger? There must be a reason......

Because it just didn't look Rube Goldberg enough without it? :D

Seriously, with the huge wound up leaf spring in the hump at the back and the general oddity of the whole thing, it really looks like it goes "cuckoo!" before it goes bang.
I am only surprised it doesn't have little people spin out of it and dance on the hour too.

Let me make a guess.... could be wrong.

I guess Luger's "L" shape trigger connector is not there. So the trigger must be put on the side to align with the sear??

.... what's could sit bebind that screwed cover.....

I have no idea.
I am afraid to take it apart.

Edit to add:
Found an exploded diagram through Wikipedia.

Borchardt diagram

Thanks. This is very helpful.

Just checked that diagram. The previous guesstimation was not too far away from it.

The trigger has "U" shaped sear arm, the back arm of "U" facing the sear is narrower on the top so it does not touch the sear when trigger is at rest. When trigger is pushed, the back arm of "U" raises its position and gradually pushing the sear bar inward. Sear bar rotates around the sear screw and release the firing pin. The disconnecting mechanism looks same as Parabellum.

http://www.mek-schuetzen.de/Blueprin...ing_Pistol.png

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The trigger has no pivot. It's hard to see why it does not fall out.

-------

Never mind. Picture #11 tells why the trigger does not fall out.

Hey you should chrome plate that thing to give it a little more shine.:D

That really is a beautiful Borchardt. Those things really attest to the brilliance of German craftsmanship and engineering. I'm patiently waiting for the price on 'em to drop a little before I run out and buy one...;)

Meridius,

Me thinks you will have a LONG wait. I waited nearly 50 years for mine and finally got it about 18 months ago. Was fortunate to have a dear friend turn up a complete, less strap, set of accessories at the Reno show last year. All it took was time and $$.

Tom A

Tom Im still waiting 50 years for mine. " No Luck Yet" But hope is still there.

With the way prices have been going lately I doubt I'll ever be able to afford one. The last rig I saw sold for $18,000. How much are cased Borchardts with all of the accessories selling for nowadays? Is it in the 30 grand range?

Minty rigs with all accessories top $80K; price drops from there. Generally speaking, a collector grade borchie (95%) with case and accessories should be in the $55-60K range I'd guess, but they so seldom come on the market, it is really hard to say. In any event, it is going to be a LOT more than the price of a nice new car.

Tom A

So, guesstimates on this one's value?
It has no accessories, just the gun.

Don't know. Usually, a gun matches one of the following condtions is expansive, and this one fulfills all of them:

(1) People could search and wait many years for it (50 !!);
(2) No FFL/paperwork needed for transferring;
(3) Low production + Hot type.

Miss Star,

Mam' based on my experience and dabbling in the market, I'd estimate a value of around $20K for your gun.

Tom A

Miss Star -

Supposedly there were only 1,104 of these pistols made by Ludwig Loewe. I think it might be worth your time to acquire a current edition of "The Blue Book of Gun Values" and see what it says.

Mauser720 - Ron

Thanks very much, folks.
I appreciate your time, and will definitely be checking the Blue Book.
This gun might be for sale in the near future.

The prices of cased Borchardts have been jumpy since the past few years depending on the eagerness from collectors. In my opinion, a cased Borchardt in +95% condition with most of its accessories could fetch a price of $40-$45k. However, if the 'temperature is hot', it is quite possible for the price to break the $50k mark.

One of the main reasons for the rapid escalation of the price is the demand from countries where this item is 'free' (no import permit required).

I remember in the mid 1980's when nobody wanted Borchardts and their price was less than a M1902 Luger Carbine. Today, a cased Borchardt brings double the value of a Luger Carbine!

Albert

"This gun might be for sale in the near future."

Anna,

you probably have to make some selections in your first class collection, but I personnally would not sell this one. you might enjoy to find out the missing accessories? your pleasure is worth more than some thousands dollars. money is so futile & volatile.

Just finished reading chapter 1 of "Luger Story... From the Maxim Machine-gun to the Borchardt Pistol". Lots of fun to have the book and the above pictures side by side, reading & comparing.

According to Mr. Walter, the gun with stock (standard) was $35 in 1898. Extra $5 for the case.

A nice borchardt,luger carabine,luger's and other nice weapons are soon for sale in julianauctions..!


Enjoy the pic's..!

http://juliaauctions.net/auctions/23...talog_233.asp?


weico

Weico, An impressive array of Lugers. The price range is up there in line with Simpson's.

The Borchardt and accessories are very attractive. But a word of caution for anyone who might be tempted to expend lots of money to purchase this low serial number (#19) Borchardt. The gun and accessory group has been assembled (i.e. not originally together). The serial number falls in the very early pre-production range, but the gun is late production Loewe. It has been renumbered and perhaps the accessories made to match. It is a lovely ensemble, but consider any potential purchase with your eyes open.

Luger Story (Walter, 2001) mentioned that #19 was probably the gun appeared in British journal "Engineering" in May 1895 (page 32). Walter did not say that he saw #19 or not.... probably he did, otherwise, how did he know it looked like the one printed on the journal. Assume the one printed on the British journal was #19, I just compared, it looks different from this #19 in auction. This is another #19.

Or, the #19 Walter saw was actually this one, but he wrongly thought it's the same gun as printed in the British journal?

Thought it again.... curious from academic point of view --

Is there any possibility that two #19 were made.... One pre-production hand-made #19, and another one in normal production?

Just a wild guess.