P.04 Model 1906 Conversion
 

Merry Christmas Luger Forum Members! I would like to share with you one of my favorite Navy Lugers....


DWM P.04 Model 1906 1st Issue Altered & subsequent Weimar and Early Nazi conversions, S/N 7390a. This particular piece has a unique history. The pistol and accompanying converted Type 1 Navy holster have gone through several changes through the course of history. First conversion was during the Weimar period, the barrel cut and re-crowned, maintaining the navy toggle and removal of the grip safety. A 1916 variation P.04 front sight was attached to the re-cut barrel and a re-numbered side plate, perhaps from another conversion performed on the same table. The â??N/1819â?� (Marinestation der Nordsee) was engraved on the rear grip strap when pressed into service in the 1930â??s by the Kriegsmarine. The converted holster has the manufacturerâ??s stamp with a â??C/Mâ?� on the inside of the flap. There are â??anchor/Mâ?� stamped twice on the outside. The edition of a cleaning rod attachment over the loading tool pouch would suggest a conversion around the early 1930â??s. An example of the same type of Navy Luger conversion can be found in Stillâ??s â??Weimar and Early Nazi Lugers and Accessoriesâ?�, 1993, on page 95, figure 26a.

Left side of pistol

right side of pistol

Proofs and Inspection stamps

SN and inspection. No halos due to armory rework.

Side plate and take down lever

"1916" Navy front sight

Kriegs' property number

Altered safety

Altered grip safety

left grip panel

Converted Navy Type 1 holster

C/M and Maker's mark with 1917 date

C/M inside flap

One of two M/anchor proofs

Added cleaning rod holder/strap

Finally, the back side of the holster. Merry Christmas to my fellow SB's, Leo (Butch) and Derek. Merry Christmas to old, new, and "not yet met" friends!
See you in KY in Feb.

Joe, A very cool historical pistol! Jerry Burney

Joe P

Great navy marked gun with a very nice, unique type holster. Impressive.

Joe

So why, isn't this Navy just a shooter with all the added and changed componets ie side plate,cut barrel,reblued,mismatched components. My Navy has a renumbered side plate from the same time frame (Weimar) and it is something the Germans would never do.This has had everything done to it ,yet it is a historical correct pistol.Does someone want to explain this.

Tim, You could be considered correct. It is a mismatched shooter. I think my enthusiasm for this pistol and holster comes from the many intracacies of historical significance left on it over the years. The pistol has much of the original old imperial Navy and with the Weimar markings it tells an interesting story. Just a matter of deffinition I guess.
Jerry Burney

Tim, "One man's treasure is another man's shooter" as with collecting anything. The side plate is the only part mismatched. It was renumbered and because it's on the pistol and numbered in the commercial/navy fashion, how it wound up on the gun is speculation. You state "the German's would not due that". The German's, as with any government during time of war/hardship, did a lot of things. Chapters have been written in reference books on Weimar/Early Nazi conversions. I like the rig because it of its service life during the Imperial, Weimar, and Nazi periods. I believe it fits well with my other Imperial and Nazi Navy Lugers, filling in the gap, but that's my opinion. I like the saying "it is what it is" and use it as one of my collecting mantras.
Joe Pirolo

Joe,I could not agree with you more.If you look at my old post about my Navy you will see that I concur. My side plate is renumbered in the same fashion with the same style font.I even brought up the same reason as to why I liked mine.It saw service in the Imperial,Weimar,and commercial eras.Mine was exported to the U.S.A and stamped Germany it is a double date also.

Tim

You really have to see this Luger and it's unique holster. Just to hold in your hands, you can feel them "bleeds" history from the Imperial and Weimar era. Probably saw final service during WW II, as that is in all probability how it ended up in North America, as a "liberated" pistol.

The pictures of the front of this holster don't do it justice.

It is a great find.

Joe

1920 reworks, like Broomhandles are not concidered collectables by some collectors who concider anything that is not now as it was when it left the factory.
Many collectors prefer something with History (Isn't that why we collect). A 100 percent gun, bluing and numbers will always be the most valuable, but historically it probably would have little to tell, if it could talk. That is why the upsurge in the interest in guns in lesser condition, or with legit reworks, bring back papers (collectors used to not worry about such things)
This is true with other things, Hot rods are worth more now than original cars, cars with a patina, true barn finds are popular.
The same trend with guns. Including dug up relics. Some swear against them, as if they all came from grave robbing. then all archeology is grave robbing. Many of thesesame people complain if you have a German pistol, Helmet or belt buckle, wouldn't if it were a tokarev. IMHO, Jim

Joe, Your 1916 dated barrel Navy never had a grip safety, so that was not converted. Is the top of the receiver also marked "1916"? If not, it makes me wonder, as I doubt that they would have wiped that out without also removing the C/M proofing in a rework. TH

Lugerdoc, The barrel is not dated "1916" and it was a converted P.04 Model 1906 1st Issue Altered. The barrel was cut and re-crowned and the P.04 "1916" front sight sodered on. I have posted a picture with the left grip panel off. Look at the frame near the bottom corner of the back grip strap. That hole was the pivot pin for the grip safety. The back strap has the groove or "cut out" where the grip safety fit between the frame and original grip. I have compared this to my "1906" 1st Issue Altered Imperial Navy Luger and it is an undeniable grip safety conversion. Jan Still has documented and photographed an almost identical pistol in his "Weimar" book. I would be happy to post more photos if so desired. Some of the Forum members have seen this gun first hand. I had the rig displayed at the NAPCA convention, this past year, in TN.

Happy New Year!

Joe Pirolo

Joe,

That is a cool old Navy conversion. A few years ago these would have been considered junk by any "respectable" Luger collector. However, the history of these pieces now demands that they be recognized for what they are.

Tim,

This is one of my Reichsmarine reworks. When it was converted they actually peened out the 1917 on the frame rail and stamped the serial number in it's place. Grip strap is marked O.190 for the Ostsee station. These conversions were often done in a "catch as catch can" method, just to get them in service.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...e_rework_1.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...e_rework_2.jpg

This is a rare Reichsmarine rework done by Simson. Jan Still has only one other reported in his data base. While it is not pristine and original. It is considered very collectable. Note the Eagle/O proof on the barrel.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...e_simson_1.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...e_simson_3.jpg

Joe,

Sorry to hi-jack your thread, but just wanted to reassure Tim that these are prized pieces.

Ron

Tim,

Because, apart from the side plate, all modifications were done while the pistol was in German Naval service, in order to comply with the changing rules and regulations.

This is not some sort of bubba-contraption made in a USA basement.

Ron,
Those are two wonderful pistols. I believe we have a lot in common as far as our "fascination" with the different variations of this exquisite pistol. Although, some might say our "fascination" is just left of mental illness. LOL! I have a sneaking suspicion your "treasure pile" is much bigger than mine ;)

I agree that the "mint" pieces are nice but I prefer pieces with a little "salt". I have a few "mint" pieces but only because of where they came from. 98-100% scares the heck out of me. These are tools of war and were used as tools. Not all of them came out of the war in mint condition.

Thanks for your replies, Tim, Jerry, Joe F. (GerCollector), jsmith, LugerDoc, Ron, and G. van Vlimmeren. Happy New Year and Good Collecting!

Joe Pirolo

These guns with history speak to many of us, me included. While I treasure my very nice "desk drawer" guns that some REMF was issued, the ones that saw service and have had several lives, touch me. But then again, I am sentimental and a historian at heart.

Tom A