41 - 42 Grip Question
 

Below is a photograph of the back side of the grip from a 41 - 42 marked Luger. (41 on the receiver and 42 on the rear toggle) The serial number is 1498 with an "o" suffix. All numbers match except for these grips, which are marked with black ink "1498." From the appearance of the ink, this was done a long time ago.

The magazine is either not numbered or the number may have been ground off. It has the aluminum bottom. There is also the "FXO" mark, with the Eagle and the number "37" under the Eagle. I can not tell if there is a number "1" in front of the number "37" because there is a gouge in the metal there. However, it does appear to be only the number "37" because it is centered beneath the Eagle. There is also a second "FXO" Eagle, and it clearly has only the number "37" beneath it. To the right of the aluminum button is also the "P.08" mark.

Please look carefully to the top right of the number "8" on the grip, and you will see two straight lines, with an "arrow mark" on each end of the lines pointing inward on each end. Any idea what these mean?

Secondly, there is a very tiny proof mark a short distance to the right of the number "8." It is the same size and same mark that appears on the right side of the receiver; i.e., the Eagle, with straight wings, and the number "655" immediately below the Eagle. (These details are only visible under magnification.)

On the right side of the receiver there are two of these same Eagles with the number "655" under them, and a third Eagle with an encircled Nazi swastika underneath.

My main question is this: Since all the numbers on this Luger match, (with the exception of the un-numbered magazine), is it likely these grips are a replacement? Or since it does have the same proof mark on the back of the grip as is on the receiver, is is possible it was simply numbered in ink at the factory this way?

I am also wondering if this affects the desirability as a collector piece? I think it only cost $518.00. It seems to have "holster wear" but no pitting, and the bore is pristine.

Thanks in advance for any information you may care to share.

Mauser720 - Ron

TAC

41 is the year of manufacture over the chamber... the toggle is marked 42 as Mauser origin...probably before the use of 'byf'

Hello Tac -

Well, here is a low resolution picture of the "41" on the receiver, and the "42" on top of the rear toggle. These numbers are not serial numbers. The "41" on the receiver may be considered the "date" and the "42" on top of the rear toggle may be the code for Mauser.

Sorry for the lack of clarity in my initial post.

Thank you for your insights regarding the numbers on the reverse of the grips. I appreciate any insights and information I can get.

Mauser720 - Ron

Mr. Sabato - Thank you. I had not seen your post before I posted my explanation and second picture.

Tac - You're welcome. Thank you for your excellent insights.

Mauser720 - Ron

Mr. Sabato was my late father... members of this forum can call me John... :)


...unless they are under the age of 30... which is half my age. :( (Oh to live those years over again with the knoweldge I have accululated in the interim years!!!...

Folks like Jan Still and Ron Wood can call me "sonny". :D

John -

Okay, thank you.

I thought the strange thing about this particular gun is that everything matches, and yet the grips both have this handwritten number on the back. I'm wondering why anyone would do that, and whether there was any possibility it may have come from the factory like that. Below is an interesting response I got from a member on Jan Still's site.

"Ron.. Welcome to the Forum (Note: Jan Still's web site). I would suggest that your grips are just fine if they have the E/655 acceptance stamp on them. Not sure when the number was written but have seen it before and it would not keep me from buying the gun if everything else is correct. I have 41/42 # 4030o. The mag is from a later period but again not a big deal. If you decide to pass on this one I would be interested in learning more about it."

So apparently the key thing here is that these grips do in fact have the E/655 stamp on them.

John, I'm very appreciative that there are people like you who have taken the time to set this Forum up and keep it running smoothly.

Mauser720 - Ron

An all matching 41 dated Code 42 is a collectible firearm and one of the rarer Mauser variations of which only 11,000-12,000 were built. If you are able to buy it in that $500+ range, you will truely have cut a good deal.
Lyn

Lyn -

Thank you for the information.

How rare/frequent is a 41-42 compared to other Mauser Lugers?

Does the toggle marking "42" add collector value?

Any idea(s) what may have driven Mauser to make changes to the toggle markings on their Lugers in the 1940-42 time frame?

Mauser720 - Ron

Someone can look up Mauser production numbers (I can't right now :(); but Mauser was given new codes as the gov't saw fit. I am not sure if there was a rhyme or reason, but there were codes of S/42, 42 and byf

Ed

Hi Ron, as Lyn stated, the 41 Code 42 Luger production was in the range of 10,000, maybe a few more. The production took place only in January 1941, after that the Ordnance Code was changes from 42 to byf. The normal Military Mauser Production was about 120,000 pistols per year from 1937 thru 1942, a little less in 1942.

Regarding your grips. I have seen a few with the full numerical serial number, but I doubt seriously if they were shipped from the factory that way. The norm is the last two digits of the number "stamped" into the wood surface. Most field replaced grips would have an inspection mark E/655 stamped into the wood.

Looks like you have a really nice keeper.

Hi Ron,

As much as I like nice photos of a beautiful women's painted toe-nails and finely turned ankles, I also long to see "full frontal" photos to see the entire beauty.

Any chance you could post more photos of your gun ?

I would venture a guess the Mauser Luger fans would as well...

Pete -

Okay, I will try to post more digital pictures; however, I seem to have a lot of trouble any time I try to post more than one single picture. First, here is a side view:














Here's another one (hopefully)

Oops. Okay, here's the side view.

I wondered if the red and white enamal in the safety dots was original?

Here's the serial number with what I think is the "o" suffix. Right? I took other pictures too. Some are clear, some out of focus, etc. Please let me know what else you might want to see, and I'll try to take and post it. Thanks in advance for any help. I'm also interested to know if this might have been refinished, etc?

Mauser720 - Ron

Tac -

Here is a picture of the muzzle. There seems to be a consensus that an unblued muzzle is a good sign. I assume the wear on the side of the muzzle is just holster wear.

Ron

Tac - No I understand your post and comments. I am not informed enough to disagree with you on this subject anyway. I was just posting another picture. Thanks. Ron

Tac -

Well, you must have some awfully big gnats on the other side of the pond.

Ron

Ron, Your 41 code 42 PO8 appears to be correct. These are only found in the n,o & p suffix ranges of 41. The E/655 grips could be factory installed or armour's replacements, as the grip numbering was sporatic at that that time. Unless the bottom of your mag shows removal of a serial, it is a correct spare for this period. TH

Tom -

Thank you for the good news.

Mauser720 - Ron

Another one to watch on auction...

It even has an HK-proofed holster with Norwegian mod's...

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=8411138

More E/655 grips on eBay...with ink marks BUT also with 2-digit SN stamping as well...

I was really excited to see "58" but then forgot your gun has "98"...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-WW2-GER...QQcmdZViewItem

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...user_grips.jpg

This other grip of the pair seems to have a much longer number inked in...maybe a SSN ???

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...rips_copy1.jpg

And interestingly, it even looks like who ever put the ink marks on the back of these grips was using the same type of marker that was used on my pair!

Thank you!

Ron,

Another pair of Mauser grips with ink-marked SN's :

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=1638444

These are E/135 stamped...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...user_grips.jpg

I believe that you have a rare Luger, only 7000, 42 - 41 ( 41 is the date )Lugers were made, Range of serial number 2500n -6700r. The magazine should be type 3 Army blued extruded 122 code.
And as far as I know they all went to the Russian front.
Alf

Pete -

I guess these ink marked Mauser grips are not that uncommon. And the one in the photograph you have provided appears to have been numbered with the same type of felt tipped marker that my own pair have been marked with. The concensus is that this was not done by the Germans because this type of marker was not in use then. So I can not help wondering when these ink marks were created, and perhaps by whom. It is tempting to say that they are not original to the gun; however, other collectors have told me they are original to their guns too.

Alf -

I was not aware that most of these 41-42 Lugers are thought to have gone to the Eastern Front as a result of Operation Barbarossa. The operational orders for Barbarossa were generated in January of 1941 which is also the same time that the 41-42 Lugers were being made. So is there reliable documentation for this diversion to the Eastern Front, or is this just educated speculation?

Mauser720 - Ron

Ron, the 41-42 code started in January. In February the 42 code was changed to byf code, that is why there are so few of this Luger.
It makes sense that at the beginning of such a campaign all available pistols were needed and the 41-42 were fresh from production.
And adding to that I read it some time ago, but I can't remember where, I will try to find the source and post it back to you.
Alf

Alf -

Thank you!

Ron