~Clean fill dirt needed~
 

Anybody got some??



WASHINGTON - Astronomers have stumbled upon a tremendous hole in the universe. That's got them scratching their heads about what's just not there. The cosmic blank spot has no stray stars, no galaxies, no sucking black holes, not even mysterious dark matter. It is 1 billion light years across of nothing. That's an expanse of nearly 6 billion trillion miles of emptiness, a University of Minnesota team announced Thursday.

but would you know if you put it in? kinda like the fridge light....

Oh Sure!! That's come up, but ya won't know until ya try...

That big empty space is simply God saying: "Oh yeah, then explain THIS if you're so smart!"
God has a sadistic sense of humor which I admire.

Maybe it is the point-of-origin of the "Big Bang"...it had to start somewhere.

The other question never asked by the Big Bangers is that since the Universe is expanding out from this Big Bang event...what the heck is the Universe expanding INTO...???...that is, what occupied the space/area before our known Universe began expanding into it...???

Hi All:

The scientists need to read the Book of Genesis a little closer.

Sieger

Pete,
What the BBers also never ask is; "If the universe did not exist before the big bang, what exactly was it that went "bang"? Left over fireworks from the 4th of July? Perhaps a backfire from a cosmic Ford?
I know, maybe it was strings!!!

Big Bang!?!?!?
 

Hi:

Well, while you are at it, I think it was a gigantic fart that went bang.

What other explanation could there be!?!

Ha!

I always like to debate the evolutionist who claim that life was created from nothing. Some of them laugh at my creationist beliefs, stating that I have no proof of them. How silly they are, as when in nature is something created from nothing?

Sieger.

That's a pretty big hole but; it pales when compared to the empty space in the heads of some of our elected, or soon to be elected officials!

Mike:D

The Bang was God snapping his fingers when he decided to create the universe... :)

(They) say it all started from one photoplazmitic speck of dust.
If it did, what put it there, and what made it move?
It takes energy to make things move, transform, grow.
I wonder what that energy could be...?
Mike C.

Can I get an amen!! Now if we could just shovel some of those politicians, and a few hundred thousand bureaucrats while we're at it, into that big hole, there might be peace and balance in the universe!
Naw, if the hole had any sense at all, it would spit 'em right back out.

When I was very young, 5 or 6. I was staying with my Grandparents and was helping my grandpa feed his horses. I asked him what was at the end of outer-space (the universe). He said "A big Red brick wall with ' Carter's Little Liver Pills ' painted on it."

Right on Sieger!

A good friend of mine, and fellow Christian, just finished his undergrad degree. He said in one of his biology classes the professor was going on an on about the "evidence" for evolution and how science had proven it. He raised his hand and asked the instructor, "What about the second law of thermodynamics?" (which, paraphrased, states that matter moves from order to chaos (rather than from chaos to order, as evolutionists pass as fact)). The professor stopped in his tracks and said, "Yeah, I never really thought about that." He said he considers that his biggest life's achievement thus far.

The biggest mistake you can make is thinking you've figured everything out.

My intent in posting this was to add a bit of light hearted humor. However, since it has gone another direction, I have a question.

How is it that creationists can pick and choose certain dynamic laws of physics to prove their beliefs, yet ignore the laws that contradict?

I am not trying to start an argument that will get this thread locked, but I am curious. I firmly believe that anyone should have the right to believe what they choose to believe, yet at the same time respect those of others.

"The biggest mistake you can make is thinking you've figured everything out."

A double edged sword...

"The biggest mistake you can make is thinking you've figured everything out."

Ron,
I think that is exactly what this lighthearted discussion is about. I don't agree with either side. I don't think the 7 days thing is to be taken literally. And I think scientists are way too arrogant in believing they have all the answers, or eventually will have them. We may be the smartest animals on the planet, but in the grand scheme of things we are as dumb as sand.

Dave,

Very True...

Ron

For me personally, I have all the "proof" I need, but that's not the issue here. The problem with discussion topics such as this is that it becomes a circular argument. Both sides overlook the fact that the opposing party is just as firm in their beliefs as they are.

My point is that neither side has proof in the absolute terms which some humans crave and many demand. Both sides ignore or are perceived to ignore "facts" or laws of nature to support their cause. However, creationists are usually portrayed as brain-washed, empty-headed sheep that believe in fairy tales, while evolutionists are deemed logical and intelligent, by looking at the facts (that are true at the moment). The reality is that people on both sides have given it a lot of thought and have decided as individuals. The core element in Creationism is faith in God. Science is passed off as absolute fact and is presented as such. Being educated and employed in the applied science field, I know that science is based partly on current fact and partly on hypothesis (the scientific word for "faith"). Often a hypothesis is presented as scientific fact while Christian faith is not afforded that same weight and often ridiculed as fantasy.

Personally, I think it's silly that the present "fact" taught in school is that from a one celled organism spontaneously sprang all the diversity we see on Earth. All the many species, birds, crabs, humans, all came from this ooze-borne cell? What are the statistics on that happening? I find it much more likely that God created this planted and later on, offered me salvation from death.

So, back to the topic, I love stories like this missing space discovery. It proves that there is still mystery in our lives and things are a lot bigger (not just in the literal sense) than we'll ever know.

apis,
Well put.

'AMEN RON"

Life
 

Bravo Apis:

To me the great mystery is just what formed that first single cell organism. After this question can be answered, then "facts" can be presented to back up theories.

When has science observed the creation of anything from nothingness? Does it occur daily? If not, why do they think it occurred long ago? This hypothesis is the "scientific faith" you wisely commented about above.

Parts of the THEORY of evolution make sense to me and can be proven by a simple study of nature. The upward evolution of animals by selective breading, for instance: Race horses, improved types of crops, etc., would seem to prove, in a limited sense, part of that theory.

Men from apes? I'm not convinced. One thing I will comment on. Prayer (religion) was taken out of the school house in 1960. By 1967, after having been taught the THEORY of evolution, most of my fellow students were beginning to act more like apes.

What really bugs me about some evolutionists is the fact that they are exclusionary in their teachings. They have driven creationism out of the school house as fantasy or "separation of church and state" yet present their THEORY as fact to be learned by the whole of the civil student population. Isn't this just what the "Monkey Trial" of the 1930s was all about, but just in reverse.

I agree, let everyone follow their own conscience, let both creationism and evolution be openly taught in the PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Let no one "force" their particular beliefs upon another. This is the American way!

Sieger

Bravo Sieger,
Gee, we've got some pretty smart guys here! Whooda thunk it!!?? <grin>

Here is another aspect of this big "hole" in space that is difficult to explain under the current theory of the big bang. It is true that everything in space now all throughout the universe is thought to have at one time been compressed into a small bit of matter about the size of the head of a pin. How it got so incredibly pressed into such a small ball has not been explained. But something caused it to suddenly explode outward. If you put too much air in a round balloon, what happens? Eventually the balloon blows up and all the air that is under pressure go spreading out from the balloon in all directions. Now in such a huge explosion as envisioned by the Big Bang Theory, there would have been this huge amount of matter spreading outward in every direction, and also in fairly uniform concentrations in every direction. The problem is this: If all the matter was speeding outward from a common center or point, then how come it somehow came back together to form galaxies, stars, planets, moons, other solar systems, etc. In other words, you can't have it both ways. You can't say it was all blowing up, but somehow it all came back together in the forms we see today throughout the universe. Or consider another example: If you took a big stick of dynamite, and detonated it in space, would individual parts of that stick of dynamite ever reconnect with each other? Well, the answer is "no." And that is the big problem, when we clearly see that matter has come together all over the Universe. Now astronomers have found this huge "hole" in space, and the big question is how could the Big Bang Theory ever explain the existence of this big hole when matter was supposed to have been uniformly cast outwards at nearly the speed of light in all directions? It is an unsettling dilemma because it doesn't fit in with the theory. We should not be seeing this.

Ron

Dave,

I like your idea; but that much dense material in one place will cause the universe to stop expanding and imploude upon itself, destroying us all!!

Mike:cheers:

This is a touchy subject. But I have to add my 2 cents worth.
I think there is a GOD
I think he created everything in the universe through whatever means he wanted to, as in creationism,and evolution.
I also think when time is over and all thing are reveled. GOD will shake his head at all the major religions and say:
You all got it wrong!

BOGEYB,

The end of the universe is a small price to pay for getting rid of all those bureaucrats and politicians, wouldn't you say?

pipeman,

Here, here! As I said earlier, I think HE has a somewhat twisted sense of humor and is getting a big laugh out of all of us.

Mike mentioned that everything might stop expanding and instead implode inward upon itself. This is just the opposit of the "Big Bang" and it is called the "Big Crunch." (no kidding)

Ron

Or big constipation, maybe?

I once had a discussion with a door-to-door believer. I simply told him argueing was senseless, since I could never prove him wrong and he could never prove me wrong :)

Some mysteries are just more fun remaining just that.

I'm sure if the universe ends in " The Big Crunch "; God will will welcome us in heaven, for we are fine gentlemen and Lugers are a thing of fine beauty!

Mike:D

HA!!

That is the real question!!

WILL THERE BE OLD LUGERS AND MAUSERS IN HEAVEN?!?!?

Sieger

Sieger,
If there ain't, I ain't goin'. Period!

Man created gods to explain the unexplainable. I personally, like the "Thor Theory" that it all started with one of his thunder bolts. TH

When you get there??
 

Aaaalllll the wwwaaaayyy to the edge of this huge void in space, there will be a sign saying, "Wall Drug, only 1000 more light years ahead!" ;) Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

I thought the sign says "Burma Shave"!?
(You gotta be a certain age to get that one.)

That big empty space is reserved for Hillarys ego! If lugers aint allowed in heaven I will be disapointed!

And don't forget S&Ws and Colts and Berettas (older ones) and... aw to hell with it, I ain't goin'!
Besides all the guns and most of my friends are probably in the other place, or headed there. Especially most of YOU guys! <grin>

[He lit a match]...[to check gas tank]... [that's why they call him]... [Skinless Frank]... [BURMA SHAVE]

One correction here....
A BIG one ...

Any true scientist will tell you that Evolution is actually a THEORY.
And that Creationism is a THEORY.
The actual nature of electricity is a THEORY too.

Ok, now the important thing, is which theories are useful, explain the obseved phenomena, predict accurate results to testing them, and have resisted being DISPROVED.

A THEORY CAN NEVER BE PROVED, only disproved.

Evolution seems to satisfy most of the requirements for a successful theory.
It is useful to breeders of dogs and horses, crops and flowers. It predicts many genetic phenomena, and it has NEVER BEEN DISPROVED.
If you have ever watched the lions drag down the slowest dik-dik in the herd, you have seen some of the supporting evidence to Natural Selection, a cornerstone concept of Evolution.
Note that while some mistaken critics of evolution theory insist they are not decended from apes, they ENTIRELY miss the point that Evolution determines we are cousins to apes, not their descendants. Our common ancestors are long gone, according to proper Evolutionary theory.

Creationism seems to not be as defendable. Hard to limit the Earths orgin to only six-thousand years. Geologic evidence, carbon dating, Astronomy, most scientific beliefs, evidence, and common sense are against it. BUT it does satisfy some needs, and is useful to many believers.

So while Creationism is still a Theory, it has been scientifically disproved to the satisfaction of the vast majority of modern scientists. But if you like to believe the earth is flat, then six thousand years might seem enough time to account for it all.

GOD, on the other hand, has never been disproved, and by the very nature of supernatural Faith and Belief, has not been proved, and CANNOT BE DISPROVED.

Note that the acutal explanations proposed for electricity have never been proved -- ( is it a wave, or a particle, or a quanta, or ...... ? ) but the acceptance of it and its "laws" as a reality allows us the use of it.

That is where Evolution is now, a useful, reasonable, scientifically accepted THEORY, which can NEVER BE PROVED, but which has not been disproved.

This whole line of contention was explored in Dayton, Tennessee in 1925, Scopes vs. State, with very interesting (legal) results. Conviction: Conviction over-turned, and case retired, unable to be appealed. The law banning the teaching of evolution remained on the books for about 50 years more, the ACLU's attempt to challenge it in higher courts was side-stepped, and no further attempts were made to enforce the law. It was just allowed to remain there to placate the fundamentalists, while Evolution was/is still taught in science classes.

Unfortunately, the SCIENTIFIC METHOD is not adequately taught, and Evolution Theory is still taught as a proved fact, which is an ERROR. It is a Theory, subject to the limitations of all Theories.

If the theories of Creation and of Evolution were taught side-by-side, and in the perspective of the Scientific Method which explains the nature of all theories, and in the perspective of the Supernatural, which cannot be proved nor disproved, we could let students draw their own conclusions.