Tool
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

What do you guys think...???...

Absolutely bogus.

Tom A

Why do you say that, Tom, is it because the Crown and the M are touching?

Look at the "shadow line" above and to the left of the crown. The mark was struck at an angle such that the left side of the impression is deeper than the right. In so doing, the fabricator revealed the flaw in a repro stamp. On a real stamp, the marking surface flows smoothly from the taper of the shank. On a repro stamp, there is a ridge around the characters of the stamp, so if you stamp it too deep or cockeyed the ridge shows up. I am sure this flaw will soon be fixed, but it is too late for this tool.

Thanks for the reply Ron. The fact that the Crown sits on the M doesn't bother you a bit also?

No, that part is OK...in fact, it should sit on the M.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...roof_copy1.jpg

Thanks Ron. Always appreciate your fine "show and tell " pictures!

A nudder one to ponder :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

The seller seems familiar :) :)

I see a dye impression at the upper left hand corner of the "M". Is this a flag that this tool is "repro" stamped as well?

Knowing the seller, I do not believe that he would intentionally sell a repo as original.

Herb, That appears to be part of the tooling marks evident on the face to me rather than a die impression. That and the Anchor M looks just as it should on a Weimar tool. This is a very nice authentic tool in my opinion...Jerry Burney

The die impression of a repro marking will closely follow the contours of the mark. The blemish on this tool is just incidental. A repro impression is much more obvious.

thank you Charles !
I ended my auction, this tool is not available now. I will send it to an american Friend of mine, member of this forum..:)
thank you Gentlemen !

Confused
 

Okay guys, what have I learned here? As a novice Navy guy that only has one un-collectable grade Navy I see that even experienced Navy guys have differing opinions so what is a novice to do? Stay away from any expensive Lugers and their accessories?
larry

If it requires someone else to tell you if it's right or wrong.Don't buy it.All Navy Lugers are collectable,but some are more collectable than others

Re: Confused
 

hard to say. I have made some mistakes in collecting, sometimes buying "too soon", sometimes buying something that was not as "collectable".

I used to feel that certain fields of lugers are simply too expensive to buy in, such as Krieghoff's (I finally bought a low end one after researching them), Navy's (I finally bought a low-end one after being offered one for a good price), and Simson's (I bought one from my good friend Howard, researched a lot, then bought a few more... and then researched a lot). My point is, that research is really important for these specialized lugggggers... ;)

:cheers:

The crown M stamp looks to be slightly double struck not a fake die stamp with border ridge. I hope you guys are wrong because Im the sucker who bought it.
Dante

Larry, the tool marking is just one Navy "pothole" you can fall into. At the recent Reno show a discussion ensued about the wide flanged rear toggle pin. Most of the folks agreed that the wide flange started to appear with the 1908 Navy and extended through the 1918 Navy. Thus, the 1906 Navy luger has a narrow rear toggle flange. Some folks insisted that ALL Navy lugers were made with the narrow flange and the wide flange was added as a factory retrofit to strengthen the area. I have no idea how they came up with this idea. I feel that the narrow flange on a later than 1906 Navy makes the gun suspect.

Navy flange
 

Why would the Navy be the only Luger type modified with a wide flange.All the models of Lugers were subject to the same amount of gas pressure when fired,ie using (9mm bullet).It was the only wide flange Luger was'nt it?

early navies, later ones were built the same. Remember, these were all new ideas at the time and they were trying different combinations or requirments by gov'ts (sometimes wild ideas were tried)...


ed

PS: lugers don't have clips

I'm still trying to figure this one out. Probably a fake ,but no difinitive answer yet...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...chor_copy1.jpg

Disillusioned
 

Drbuster,
The only Navy I have is a 1908 and it has the wide flange. I have become so disillusioned over the years with the way Lugers have been enhanced that I just stay away from the high end Lugers.

Another reason is I just don't have that kind of money to tie up in a collectable grade Luger.

larry

Ed, according to Webster's dictionary Lugers do indeed have "CLIPS"

Tim, you raise a very interesting point as to WHY the wide flange. Ed's opinion is as reasonable as any others. But you are correct (I think)..the 1908 and later Navies were the only lugers with the wide flange. It would be nice to take a poll of the 1908 and later Navies to see which ones do not have the wide flange. But then a controversy would certainly ensue challenging the authenticity of the narrow flanged guns.

It says in Websters that lugers feed rounds from "clips"? Interesting, and I don't really mind either way, but long time collectors have always told me; pistols have magazines, rifles feed from clips (ala M1 Garand, Arisaka, Enfield, etc).

You use a clip to load some pistols, i.e. Mannlichers, Broomhandles, etc., but generally you use magazines.

Ed

It defines the meaning of the word clip.It says nothing about Lugers. Words take on the meaning of how people use them.What once was may no longer be "correct"

Tim, you are correct and I apoligize if my manner or remarks offended. Did not mean it that way, was probably malibu and orange juice that wrote my 1st remark anyway.

:cheers:

Ed,No offense was taken.I just like to have interesting conversations with people.Enough of that,now back to the flange.It must have something to do with the Navy rear sight on the rear link.It may be ease of disassembly or putting it back together the same way evertime. Anybodys guess.

Ron,

The tool is completely bogus.

Tom A

Ron/Tom...

I am sure that tool can be traced to Popeye (who served on Imperial U-boats before coming to the cartoon-world in the USA) with a provenance letter found in TX state...;) ;)

Just out of curiosity, were the stamps applied before or after phosphating?

After.

Tom A