KrauseWerke .45 Caliber Luger
 

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=68787257

interesting auction

enjoy
Bill

.45 Luger
 

Hi All:

I'm wondering if anyone out there in Luger land actually owns and shoots on of these?

If would be a lot of fun to really study and develop proper loads for one of these.

Sieger

Maybe we should have another poll. Which would you rather have, a KrauseWerke .45 or one of the new reproduction Krieghoffs? They are about the same price. I'd take the .45

Tracy

I'd opt for the Krieg...they are a finite commodity.

Tom A

I would opt for the Krause .45...and did.

As soon as someone admits to buying one of the Krieghoffs we need a complete manufacturing characteristics report...

--Dwight

.45 Luger
 

Dear Ron:

It's a reproduction if made after 1918!

Do you shoot your masterpiece or do you just admire it?

I saw a surviving original DWM .45 displayed at a Gun Show in Lakeland Florida in 1986 or so. I actually was allowed to handle it. I understand that Mike used this actual pistol to reverse engineer his modern creation.

I'd love to handel one and actually shoot one. Oh well, perhaps in my next life.

As to the Krieghoff and Krause question, I'd vote for the Krause. After all, the Krieghoff is simply the recreation of a common P-08, whereas the Krause is a recreation of a rare masterpiece.

Sieger

Bob,
So far it is just an object of admiration. Perhaps someday I will launch a few rounds, but right now I am content to let it rest comfortably as a display piece since it is a repro (and an expensive one at that!).

Ron, I'd be interested in learning your firing results. For what I've heard, neither the original M1907 .45 or Mike's repro of it, were designed to function well with US .45 loads. TH

Doc,

Didn't the Harry Jones family shoot 150 or so rounds through one of the .45 Lugers back in 1960...the one that ended up in the Norton Gallery collection ?

If I am not mistaken, those rounds were Rem-USA .45 bullets.

Ron,

Could you post some pictures of your Krause 45? Does anyone own a Krause Baby Luger?

Tracy

.45 Ammo
 

Hi:

I remember reading that Luger had to make specially loaded DWM .45 ammo available for the U.S. Army trials. In fact, this was one of the objections of the testing board, that special ammo was needed and that the powder loaded in those cartridges was not available to the U.S. market from DWM.

As to the Krause Lugers functioning with "regular" .45 American ammo, I can't see the .45 model being anymore forgiving as to its ammo than its 9mm and 7.65 cousins. I'm sure the AOL and powder charge variables would be just as critical with the .45 design.

Sieger

shooting the .45 Luger
 

Ron:

You must be a stronger man than I am, as I just couldn't resist putting this little treasure though its paces.

Sieger

.45 Luger Shooting
 

Hi:

Yes, I have that magazine here somewhere. They even had to repair the little critter a bit in the firing pin region, I do recall.

Seems to me that they had no problem with off of the shelf .45 U.S. Military surplus ammo. I think two magazines were shot through it.

Sieger

I have a Krausewerk New Model Luger Automatic Pistol caliber .45 ACP, serial number 10 and I have shot it. It is more of a single shot pistol than a magazine feed semi-automatic. Did not do much trouble shooting but I think that the magazine springs outside diameter is too large and binds inside the magazine. only put seven rounds through it.

Douglas, How was the accuracy? Jerry Burney from Salida CO.

.45 Luger
 

Dear Wizard:

Wow, I would have thought that little problems like the one you describe would have been addressed and taken care of at the factory!!

To me, this is an unforgivable blunder, especially at these prices!!

I had a similar problem with a Winchester 1886 Rifle recreation I purchased just a few years ago. Here, the rifle wouldn't fire reliably, because the mainspring was too weak. The factory was clueless, but I fixed the problem by replacing the spring with one out of an original Model 71 Winchester. They were astonished!!

To me, it is amazing the level of incompetence that seems to reign in the world of engineering now a days!!

Sieger

I have one of the spent cartridges shot through the 45 Luger, with a letter from Mike Jones attesting to it being original.


Ed

Didn't really think about the accuracy. I was think about if it was going to function. I should have known something was wrong when loading the magazine was really hard. And when it failed to feed I just wanted to unload the magazine. I did consider talking to Krausewerk about the problem but my life got real complicated and I just didn't have time to deal with it. Any advice about how to handle the problem would be reviewed. Got to say it is ONE FINE LOOKING PISTOL!!!!!!!!!! If it shot it would be perfect.

TAC,

FYI...the Krause retail gun shop in San Mateo, CA has a sizeable machine shop below the retail shop...along the ground floor. Krausewerk occupies a 2-story L-shaped apartment building, built in the 1950's or 1960's that was converted to his gun/trade business. I would guess the original apartment building had 15-18 units, originally.

I would guestimate that the machine shop and storage areas have 8,000 sq. ft. or so and looks like it is a full service machine shop for the gun trade. Other machinist(s) work along side Krause as well.

Considering several if not many .45 Luger pistols and .32 ACP Baby Lugers have been made by Krausewerk since the 1980's...it may be considered a 'factory'...IMO.

"Any advice about how to handle the problem would be reviewed"

Call Mike Krause.

--Dwight

Pete and Dwight, Mike Krause does indeed have a manufacturer's license so technically his is a "factory".

Re: Re: .45 Luger
 

Lieber Freund tac:

Sehr interessant!

Was nur gibt es?

Sieger

.45Luger
 

Dear Ed:

Does the spent .45 case have the same "step" from the forward chamber as the 9MMs due?

Sieger

Re: .45Luger
 

not sure... I am in Philly and it is near Denver. It was "modern" (hence 1960's ??) 45 ACP ammo that was used and shot and functioned correctly from the article I read. The problem I read in the books on the ammo from the time, was that it was not reliable from Frankfurt (USA) arsenal.


Ed

ED, I understand that the original M1907 DWM .45 lugers, and probably Mike K's repros, were designed to operate properly on German made DM .45 ammo and did not function reliably with the US made ammo. I'd be interested in the head stamp marking on your spent round, if one of the German made ones. TH

I visited Mr. Krause's shop in San Mateo in May of 2002. I examined a .45 luger he had there at the time and asked several question about them. His guns are chambered for standard .45ACP. The gun I handled had been fired, it had grips with the plain border, in the style of Swiss made lugers.
"The Luger Story" by John Walter indicates Georg Luger had ammo made due to the erratic pressure and general poor quality of the Frankford arsenal .45 ammo.
My recent experience with an Interarms 29/70 in 9mm makes me think that the pressure curve may be critical in a luger as well.

Mike

Tom,

All of the rounds fired from the .45 Luger in 1960 was US made ammo. I still have most of the brass. I know some if not all are REM-UMC. I will check and see if there are any other manufactors.

Mike Jones

Mike,

While you are at it, it would be good if you could check the casing surface to see if it has the characteristic ring the stepped chamber leaves on 9mm cases.

--Dwight

Dwight,

Mike Jones was very kind to send me one of the .45 casings and letter as well.

Mine is "REM-UMC 45 Auto" stamped and there are no surface rings visible with loupe magnification. No "step" in the shape of the casing, either.

Pete,

Thanks much. I believe that this tells us a significant, if miniscule, piece of informatinon about these guns.

--Dwight

Hi Dwight,

Can you make me smarter about the 'significant' portion...? Ballistically ???

If I were to second-guess what Dwight was indicating, I would think that it is interesting that Georg didn't employ his patented chamber step in the .45.

Ron second-guesses me correctly.

--Dwight

I wonder what firing that first shot would cost to the value 50 years from now, if anyone living cares.

Glen, welcome to the forum.. I have mixed feelings on things like this, have heard of folks owning a 1970 Boss mustang for 35 years and barely driving it, hoping to get the most money out of it. Then, all those years you never had "fun" with it...


Ed

Yes, I have a 1970 Mauser P08 7.65 MM (Not Swiss style) that is my only safe queen, I can't bear to shoot it, it was only fired at the factory. I believe they only made 5070 of them in that caliber. I'd love to buy a shooter.

oh, oh, now you'll make me laugh at myself, as I have a "few shooters" but a bunch of safe queens!

:)

Yes, I have a 1970 Mauser P08 7.65 MM (Not Swiss style) that is my only safe queen, I can't bear to shoot it, it was only fired at the factory. I believe they only made 5070 of them in that caliber. I'd love to buy a shooter.

Wow, hit it twice, sorry.