Lugers for Self Defense?
 

This is a topic that kinda-started elsewhere under another topic heading, but I thought it deserved its own heading.

The question is: does anyone on the list keep a Luger for self defense purposes? :confused:

Jim

Thanks Jim for starting this here!

To just sort of bring the discussion up on things; under Off Topic & Other Firearms, we'd digressed from favorite revolvers to choices for a self defense weapon. Several 9 mm automatics were mentioned. Having worked in several independently owned service stations back in my college days, I remembered that just about every one was owned by a WW II vet who kept a pistol someplace, several were war trophies like a Walther P38, but never a Luger. That's when I asked, "would anyone choose to have a Luger for such circumstances, a really nice shooter (or at least nothing too collectible), say with a Mec-Gar and Wally's white box ammo?"

My reply from the afore mentioned thread..

Herb,

Not too many would keep a loaded Luger these days, but back in it's day, it was common, I would think. Consider the number of 1920/23 commercials that were purchased. Most were probably used for self, and home defense.


Ron

I wouldn't keep anything for self defense I would not be willing to see the police spirit away forever.

Gents,

The first rule of self-defense pistol craft is never use anything that doesn't have the number 4 as the first digit of its caliber.

Tom A

Personally, I don't like using anything for home defense that was manufactured before my father was born.

Just as a general rule...

A social gun should be something strong, reliable, simple to operate and service, and with night sights. You might get #2 with a Luger.

That said, I have been invited to a Action (three gun) match this weekend, and am considering taking the Luger and my K98. Bound to make conversation anyway.

H

For home defence I have my 12 gauge handy and ready to go. For carry I would not use anything that would have to be "kept" as evidence so I would use one of my more modern S&W pieces.

If I may be permitted to moderate for a moment:

The question here isn't really what would be the best handgun for home or self defense, but how about a Luger?

Is there's not one member of this forum who actually keeps a loaded Luger someplace in there home? Not necessarily with a round in the camber, but with a loaded magazine.

If so, what is it and with what for a magazine and ammunition? In the other discussion (where I showed my own preference, a S&W Model 10 with a 6" barrel) I speculated that perhaps a good Luger shooter, or at least nothing too collectible, with a Mec-Gar and Wally's white box ammo might do.

P.S. If you or anyone you know is seriously into the venerable Colt Single Action Army revolver and/or the many reproductions, then you have undoubtedly come across discussions concerning the use of such a weapon for self defense. I'm not just talking about Cowboy Action Shooting competitions, though that certainly is what they're practicing.

As for all who mention the undoubted efficacy of a 12 gauge (my choice would be a Remington 870 cylinder bore & Remington Express Buckshot), consider for the moment the many scenarios in which a handgun may be desired because one is required to use one hand for taking care of task other than holding a weapon. You know, like holding a flashlight, opening doors, making a phone call to 911, or managing a large dog.

If all you have is a luger then it is better than no gun. I have a hard time seeing the sights durning the day time so at night it would be point and pray, not something I would want around the family menbers.

Jerry

I love Lugers, always have! I love them for their design, beauty and history. For home defense and personal armament I don't want anything without a hammer. I don't want something that can go proactive in a glove compartment or pocket.

Scattered about where I work and play are 1911A1's, PP's and a CZ75.

I love my Lugers, but they are just not reliable enough for me. I keep a wheelgun in the nightstand drawer for that.

Speaking of night stands
I just picked up a well worn S&W Victory lend lease revolver in 38S&W for mine. It's covered with all kinds of US property and British tons stamps .
Will that work?

Me, too. They may not be as romantic - then again, they may be - as autoloaders, but you just can't beat a good revolver for a real-world shootout.

Jim

41 S/42 mismatched and rebuilt, functions almost flawlessly at the range. It's my everyday shooter and it's dependable. Sits on my workbench at home in an inexpensive nylon holster with a loaded Meggar magazine (chamber is always empty) with cheap +P 9mm Chinese import ammo - just in case it's ever needed (at home). It's the only loaded gun in the house and it sure likes that hot ammo!

Chinese +P Ammo
 

Hi:

I have a matching byf 41 and the Chinese stuff batters the hell out of it. Your rebilder must have installed a recoil spring that had formerly been used as a bumper spring on an old Dodge or something.

If it works, use it!

Sieger

What do you mean by "functions almost flawlessly?"

Can't help but wonder if using any kind of +P is ever appropriate ammunition for a 60+ year old Luger?

So far, that's just one member of this forum who says they actually keep a Luger loaded.

Herb, over the last 6-7 years (since I retired from the army and had to find steady work ;)), I have kept a loaded Luger a couple of times. As Tom alluded to, if it ain't a 45, 1911A1 variant then I'd rather not bet my life on it, the luger is just generally not reliable enough for me, let alone the caliber. That said, my Makarov or a PP are the ones that sit loaded many times at the house.


Ed

Herb/Sieger: I usually go to the range with my luger with about 500 rounds of that Chinese ammo +P I bought and my gun digests it very easily. The worst that happens is sometimes (about 6 to 10 times) I will get a stove pipe jam but short of that I do not have any difficulties whether rapid firing or slow careful shooting . All the pins and axles in the gun have been replaced with hardened steel pins/axles and the recoil spring is very stout to say the least as well as the magazine spring which has also been replaced - headspacing is within tolerance for the 9mm cartridge. The firing pin flutes have been enlarged and the feedramp has been polished. I am using an aftermarket extractor and had it hardened also as to avoid breakage ensuring positive extraction of a case especially when the brass expands excessively due to heat and is a bit difficult to remove from the chamber. To say the least I am please with my luger and enjoy it very much.

Lugers for protection
 

It's great to hear that at least a couple of our members rely on one of these old workhorses for protection. :)

Me, I confess to being biased against autoladers in general for self defense (though a new Kel Tec .380 is starting to ride in my front pocket as frequently as my old reliable, but underpowered and difficult-to-hit-anything-with. North American Arms .22LR used to).

I like the old wheelgun: I figure 5 or 6 shots that I can depend on should get me out of any jam that any pistol can get me out of. :D

Jim

"Always treat a gun as if it is loaded, And What! good is a gun if it aint loaded" -Paul Zimmerman (My grand father)

All my guns are loaded. Some might say its stupid. But in the area i live in its best to have multipul guns to get to if needed.
I have my grand fathers 1911 fomr 1914 that he carried in WWII, not a prety thing, but its a tack driver for a GI 45. I oil it every week, and all my others get oiled about once every 3 weeks. I have a 44mag that is loaded, my first pistol a Springfield 1911A1 loaded with a 8rd mag, i have 2 beretta 9mm's that are always loaded, one in my head board. My M4 is loaded, my ak is loaded my walther 22 is loaded. But NONE have a round in the chamber. For one its hard on the mags not having it fully loaded, and two its just good practice to not have a round in there. I have all kinds of mags loaded for all of them as well.
No im not a nut, just lazy when it comes to havting to load mags, so i have a crap load of them and just keep them loaded. :)
Is having 1000's of rounds on hand bad....i see it as smart in these times, when ammo can cost $7 one day and be up to $9 the next.
Im not decided if i will keep my new luger loaded or not. If i do it will be the mecgar mag, and no round in the chamber. I would like to find a safe load, and hollow point rounds that work in it. All will tell when i actualy get her here. :)
Jarrod M

Armed to the teeth!
 

Badsnake, you may not be locked and loaded but you surely are armed and dangerous! :D

Me, though, I'd be worried about a slew of loaded pistols strewn around the house. If I have only one, I know where it is and where to get it. With several, I'd be worried that I'm inadvertently arming an intruder. :(

Jim

Well, there's at least ONE more person here who keeps a Luger for a self-defense/carry pistol. Most of my gun collection is rifles/belt-feds/shotguns, and the ONLY two pistols I currently own are my 1939 42 matching Luger, and a reproduction ASM version of the old Civil War era Colt 1860 Army .44 black powder cap and ball revolver. Between the two, the Luger IS the more practical as a carry pistol.

Of course, propped up next to the nightstand that the loaded Luger sleeps on is also a loaded retro AR-15/M16, which would likely be the FIRST thing I'd grab at the sound of breaking glass in the wee hours. But it's not really suited for concealed carry, so it's back to the Luger in a custom leather holster that sits angled and high enough to be discrete. And as far as the Police taking it away after a shooting, well, IF I ever have to use it in a self-defense shooting, the relative monetary value of the gun is going to be the LEAST of my concerns, at that point.

Around these parts a state license to carry a concealed handgun is not too difficult or expensive to obtain. The required amount of training here is 12 hours; ten hours classroom and two on the range. There's a written exam and shooting qualification with silhouette targets at 3 and 7 yards. The training cost about $150, the license application fee is less than $40. Being prepared and legal, priceless.

Self defense / gun loss
 

Pvt. Joker, I agree that if it were a choice between defending myself or family vs. possible loss of the gun, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot, regardless of whether the gun in question were a family heirloom, a piece of junk, or worth a fortune.

But if you already own a big collection, you should consider adding a more modern, less valuable carry piece to it.

Jim

Tac san is obviously in the leading edge of the British response to their repressive firearms laws. His well equipped home armory is acculturated from the Japanese, who by the way, have exclusively used edge weapons in all their political assassination attempts in the post WW II years. Yet we don't see their government outlawing them. They're too important a symbol.

Re: Re: Self defense / gun loss
 

I think I would rather face a loaded gun than a metre of razor sharp steel capable of moving faster than the eye can see ! ouch !

Tac, I am sure you could add a Cricket Bat, and a Louisville Slugger to your home defense arsenal without having to register either one... hopefully it will be a few more years before they are declared offensive weapons by your 'govermint

:D :D :D

Jim

Re: Re: Re: Self defense / gun loss
 

It's also very hard to wrestle a rajor-sharp sword away from its wielder. :D

By the way, Tac, great to see you're on this list too: I usually see your posts on the AirgunBBS.

Jim

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Self defense / gun loss
 

Amen!

Sieger

I never had any luck getting a standard P08 to run well enough for defensive purposes. Swiss Lugers work a little better for me, but for the cost of feeding them. By contrast, my LP08 cycles Winchester White Box ammo like a charm. I keep it loaded and wouldn't hesitate to use it for defensive purposes. My feelings in the matter are summarized here.

East Asia has a long and rich tradition of such Fools. (See, Taoism and Zen.)

Perhaps I have missed the gist of the current conversation , but I have never met any fools who truly understand or practise , zen , the tao or eastern martial arts . the level of discipline necessary to master these arts is extraordinary . I studied Judo , Jiujitsu and Hung Gar for over 25 years and only scratched the surface . It cannot be used effectively against a modern army , but for training individual specialists it can be very effective when you dispense with the more stylised aspects .

Dear mr. tac , me thinks thou knows a lot more than you let on!
please enjoy your sedative. :)

Well, there are fools, and then there are fools.

But what brought me back to make a posting here was the recent tragedy in the Akihabara district of Tokyo. "Seven dead in Tokyo knife attack." Here's a link to the story on the BBC's website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7442327.stm

The point being that a mentally deranged man went on a killing rampage in a country with extremely tight gun control. He used a knife.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7442327.stm

You Are No Fool
 

Dear TAC:

From what I have read about you here, your language ability, your business success, your former collection of Lugers, etc., I'd say that you are no man's fool, quite to the contrary!

Sieger

To be honest the 2 Lugers I have owned/shot both jammed quite a bit. So I would be a bit uneasy about trusting my life to a Luger.

If I did, the only mags I would use are the fxo ones, they seems to work a lot better than any of the others I have tried. And they are too expensive to keep fully loaded around the house.

I got an M4, and I'm sticking with that until I get a Glock 17.... YES that's the 9mm model :)

Im sure if your luger is in good condition and fed the right ammo , it will work fine . but it does make sense to keep a modern handgun for self defence .