Modern Guns Stink!
 

(I love a provocative title, don't you?)

Just musing early on a Sunday morning...

It occurs to me that all the guns (handguns at least) that will ever be worth collecting already exist and there won't be any more.
Few would disagree that the pinnacle of form and function in firearms is the Luger. It is simply something magnificent to behold. Of course there are lots of other firearms that are beautiful too, but nothing I can think of being made today (except modern copies of older weapons of course).

What makes a firearm collectible? Beauty (but, sometimes ugliness), scarcity, oddity?...
I think lots of factors make a firearm more or less "valuable" to a collector, but only one thing makes a firearm desirable in the first place: appearance.
It's the form of the weapon that makes it appealing. Everything else is just icing on the cake.
Some collectors may want to own every minor variation ever made of the XYZ pistol, but they want it in the first place because the look and feel of the weapon appeals to them.
Of course there are a few who couldn't care less about the things they collect because they view them as only an investment. But they are able to make this investment only because what they are collecting is appealing to someone else.

We collect firearms because of their appearance: beautiful, ugly or odd.

What do modern firearms from Glock, Kahr, Walther, S&W, etc., look like? They're all virtually the same gun: a plastic box with a metal lid. They all have essentially the same unappealing rectangular shape, made of the same materials with the same finish. They are not beautiful, ugly or odd. They are just there. They are function devoid of form. I cannot imagine anyone ever putting one of these guns under glass and showing it off to friends as part of a "collection". They have no visual appeal whatsoever. They are just shoe boxes that go bang.

Hence my supposition: Gun manufacturers (handgun at least) are no longer producing any new designs that will ever hold any appeal for collectors, and are not likely to change that trend in the future. The age of the handgun as sculpture is gone. There will never, ever be any shoebox collectors. Therefore all the guns that will ever be worth collecting have already been manufactured and there will not be any more in the future. When collectors fully grasp this, prices will probably go through the roof.

Waddya think?

David,

I agree...I stopped buying modern semi-autos in the early 1990's when the plastic/polymer guns started becoming the rage.

Last one I picked up was my Para-Ordnance P12/45...I still love shooting that gun to this day.

I own only one modern plastic wonder. And that only because of what I can attach to it, once BATF finishes my rectal exam.
And once I find a PPK, or PP or PPKS in .22 with a threaded barrel that plastic wonder will probably be gone.

Hi,

I've been battling a pile of plastic parts called a 'Sig Sauer Mosquito' for several hours. I tend to agree :)

(if anyone knows how the trigger/sear/hammer construction should actually work, I'd appreciate any hints & tips) :D

Gerben,

Not sure if these manuals will help you or not :

http://www.sauer-waffen.de/index.php?id=437&lang=en

I just got used to alloy on guns. I don't think that I will ever adjust to this plastic crap. I have a Ruger PC 4 (.40 S&W Police Carbine) that shoots too well to get rid of. And makes a good "through it in the rig" gun. The polymer stock still puts me off a bit.

No plastic here, newest hand gun is an early 1980s Interarms PPK.

No plastic here either. I guess I have about fifty handguns and not one is plastic. Most modern one I own I wear everyday (S&W CS45) which is alloy & steel.

I don't have anything personal against plastic guns other than they don't appeal to me. I shot a Glock once that I couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with. Since then, they haven't impressed me much.

Thats a very good point ,There are some good looking 1911s being made but they are of older design. I carrry a glock,dont care what it looks like or what happens to it,I only know it allways works:)

I shot a Glock for the first time a couple of months back.
Put 50 rounds through it, with at least a dozen jams.
Afterwards I was asked what I thought of it.
I seriously offended several people when I laughed and blurted out; "Wow, what a POS!"
(Now you know why I'm not in the diplomatic corps!)
The jams notwithstanding, these guns feel like cheap plastic crap (which they are), the trigger pull feels like a water pistol, and the overall design inspires zero confidence.
<sarcasm>Of course, you can get them with a camouflage paint job, in case you need to hide behind your pistol.</sarcasm>

apologies to c3006

Funny, I was making a similar point to my father a few weeks ago. Mass production and less than unique designs tend to make most modern guns a dime a dozen. Time will be the true test. Fifty to a hundred years from who knows what will be the Luger of the later half of the 20th century. Personally I love my Glock(9mm),Witness(45acp), and Ruger MKII. If I had to chose one for collectability I had to go with the Ruger MkII, thats if you consider it a modern firearm.

I just found this:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=462537

Thought in fairness I ought to post it.

I agree with David....

Although I'm not what you would call a serious collector, it's the esthetic of a gun which catches my eye first. It's amazing how quickly I can go through a gun show if all the pistols look alike.

Unfortunately, it seems that most arms manufactures are focusing more on function and are increasingly neglectful of form.

Dave in TN.

Me too. I walk through a gun show and see table after table of plastic wonders and just shake my head.
I guess I resent the fact that they are taking up space that might otherwise be occupied with "real" guns I'd actually like to see.

Kind of like the difference between a good art gallery and a wallpaper store.

Luger, Walther, Colt = VanGogh
Sig, Glock, H&K = gray wallpaper

I think the most "modern" pistol that I have is my Colt Officers 45acp car gun.:rolleyes:

I watched the video from Glocktalk. That is a brave man that pulled the gun out of a bucket of dirt and shot it without clearing the barrel!

I have shot other peoples plastic guns and they don't do anything for me. Actually they feel like toys and the trigger pull is just strange.

I recently shot a new Sig that I really liked.

Chris

I never take offense when someone does not like glocks ,I understand completly. I have 3 glocks that I have put over 10,000 rnds thru over the last 20 years and the only misfires I have ever had were amo related. They are ugly tools but I think they do there job.I would never collect one. clint

Beauty vs. Reliability
 

Well -- I own two Sigs (P220 in .45 ACP and P229 in .357 Sig).

Neither "speaks" to me like any of my Lugers. Neither feels quite so good in my hand as a Luger.

However, if I had to grab a weapon with which to defend my life; it would be one of the Sigs. "To hell and back reliability" is not just an advertising slogan with these pistols.

Can't say I ever shot a Luger that I found to be super reliable. Oh -- and the Sigs don't have a safety to "forget" to disengage.

Not knocking the Parabellum design, but there are many better cartridges than 9 x 19 mm.

My own carry gun is "old school" SW model 640 in .357, (hammerless) I am not in LE, just a citizen. It will never jam, never have to "rack the slide" for a "stove pipe" or dud primer. (I have had these with factory ammo) You can keep it loaded for 100 years and no springs will get "soft".

The guns profile is small enough to carry with just a "T shirt" and a good holster.

For semi autos I would take a Sig 229 in .357 Sig over a Glock ... just my 2c

Mark

I ignored all the new guns lined up dress-right-dress and looking boring at the Chantilly Gun show. They didn't even slow my already slow stride. When I came to a table with Historic (pre '45) guns, I had to stop, inspect and chat for a bit.

New guns are like new cars, manufactures are attempting to get the maximum efficiency which is why they (cars and guns) all look the same.

The only new gun I own is the Sig-Sauer P220 in .45 for my carry gun. Nice gun but miss my old Browning HP. I'm more accurate with the HP and one day, I'll buy another.

Doesn't matter what caliber your gun, if you can't hit a bullet with the broad side of a barn, it's useless. The first shot is the most important.

The Heckler & Koch P7 series is pretty desireable and collectable. H&K has pretty much stopped making them and now they are going skyward in price. They were already pretty high, but these are really shooting through the roof now.

Also, the SIG P210's are pretty collectable too.

With rare exception what I am carrying is always a .380 (if I'm breathing, I'm armed):

PPK, 1934 Beretta, 1910 Browning, Star SS, or Colt 1908 Hammerless.
If I think I might be going somewhere risky I'll demote the .380 to backup and substitute a 1911 or older model (pre-plastic safety) Hi Power as the primary.
If I knew I were headed for a fight, I'd take a pair of 1911's and a pocket full of mags (along with a '97 Winchester or an AR 15).
If offered a plastic wonder to take along, I wouldn't be foolish enough to turn it down, but I wouldn't use it first either.

David,
One of my favorites is the Remington 380.
Hugh

That one's on my "very short list", along with the Savage. I'd also like to have one of the .45's Savage made for the military trials, but those are just a wee bit expensive and hard to find.

I have Glock P19 as my military service pistol. It works and can go bang many times on one clip, but there is no 'charm' in this pistol. (sorry to all who disagree) There is no Tupperware with fancy laser's and cup holders in my safe.
Probably because I'm more of a collector than target shooter.. I see and use enough modern firearm on work.

I'm into Lugers because of their history, appearance, and my grandmother who found (hid away and lost) one after ww2 :)

Besides vintage pistols, my interest is quality hunting rifles and the historic great rifles such as the Garand.

Ooh, I like that one! Even better than "plastic wonders".

ops.. did I say that out loud? Hope there is no offence taken.. We all have our interest and skelets in the closet/safe

Steinar,

I collect and hunt with Mannlicher Schoenauer's, in my opinion the Rolls Royce of Rifles!
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...mage_copy1.jpg

ahh.. it's a thing of beauty Hugh! Good quality rifle, just the way I like them.
I recently purchased a new Mauser M 03 Classic, if it wasn't for our gun laws (and my foundings) the next on my list would be a Mannlicher.
I think it looks better without the scope, also.. the way I hunt, often when it's quite dark and close to the animal, I don't realy need one.

Hugh,

Ya know, there are forum rules against pornographic photos.:(

FYI..I have a birthday coming up......

If he post a picture of that Mannlicher one more time, I'm going to cry.


Because I don't have one!:crying:

Still no digital camera, so no pics, but...

1903 Colt Pocket Hammer, 95% original finish with hand-made elephant ivory grips that just arrived today.

Need a hankie?

:bigbye: Ron,

I will be more than happy to send you a Mannlicher PICTURE for your birthday. :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

Nice to find another of your weaknesses Hugh I may have a couple of those fine rifles,one in 7.5x55 in fact:)

Hugh,

That would be great. Just roll it up and tuck it through the trigger guard. ;)

Great THREAD! Funny thing is I totally agree with most that the plastic gun has totally taken the art out of gun manufacturing, and you can make it through a gunshow real quick when you have 10,000 glocks and a couple $3000 re-blued lugers ;-) That being said.. I own a Glock 20 10mm.. and 2 Walther P99's. I do like shooting the P99 over the Glock. But, to compare the P99 to the previous P5 or P88.. just no comparison.

For Ron & Pipeman;
6.5x68 MS

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/6.5x681.jpg

257 Roberts

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/ms_carb.jpg

I can't believe you guys haven't even mentioned CZ's. The CZ 75,83,85,97 are all excellent quality pistols for the money and NO plastic. I just picked up another one(CZ85 mfg 1991) practically NIB for $325. Before CZ-USA opened their doors here in the U.S., these pistols were practically not even known in this Country. They could usually be found around military bases in pawn and gun shops where returning service personnel sold or traded them. If you ever run across one, be sure and give it a second look.

I agree Steve.. CZ makes some great guns!

Heard this variation the other day:

Combat Tupperware