Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

Aside from collecting Lugers, I want to purchase one which will be used exclusively for shooting. The big question for me is: Which era Luger?


Is it safer to shoot a more recently manufactured Luger (1930s and 1940s) than to shoot a WW-I era Luger?


I would like to find a mechanically sound 1908 - 1913 Luger which might have mismatched parts but which is mechanically safe; but I have a concern that the older Lugers might blow up in my face.


Would appreciate advice and/or the experience of more experienced Luger users.


Thanks for your help.

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

Luke, I think that your best bet for a safe WW1 dated shooter at a reasonable price, is one of the recently imported E.German (with new barrels installed) or Russian (original barrels) imports. These were rehabed in the 1950s with any necessary new springs, breach blocks or what ever was needed.

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

Luke,


This is a good question! As to whether the WWI or WWII Lugers would be safer, I feel that either one would be a personal choice.


The safety of these pistols are one of the best in the world. They were very well manufactured and had to pass the individual part inspection plus the proof test. The biggest question is how have they been treated since they were manufactured. This is a question that is difficult to answer. Unless you are very familiar with the pistol, a trip to a local gunsmith to have him check it out would be a good idea. I look at the overall condition, bore condition, if all the moving parts seem "free" when actuated manualy, and for areas which may show unecessary wear. Look carefully ar the rear frame area which actuates the toggle mechanism. If the pistol has been fired a lot or with extra power loads, there is a "peening" which shows up in this area. This will not preclude a bad pistol, but indicates a lot of firing.


Don't worry about it blowing up in your face if these things check out OK, I feel it is one of the safest pistols ever made.


Marvin

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

Luke,


Tom has the best idea and you may want to check with him to see if he has any for sale. You can trust Tom to provide a nice pistol to you.


Marvin

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

Hi Luke,


For a shooter, when the pistol was manufactured is less important than its present condition. You will find Imperial era Lugers that are in fine mechanical condition, and Third Reich era Lugers that were â??rode hard and put up wet.â?� When you shop for your Luger, pay more attention to mechanical condition than with when it was made or its cosmetic condition.


Hope this helps.


Best regards,


Kyrie

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

Thanks for all the comments.


While I would have assumed that condition would be an overriding factor, I was more concerned with the relative reliability and strength of the WW-I versus the WW-II Lugers. At least one gunsmith has voiced the opinion that the Lugers made in the 30s and 40s were safer as shooters.


Has anyone had any serious problems in shooting the Lugers of either era? Maybe I am just worried about a non-problem.


Luke

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

I do prefer to build our customlugers on Mauser Lugers as the material seems to be better.

But I don't mind building on DWM guns either and I have never seen or heard of any blown up luger.

By the way all original lugers are always better safer and of much higher quality than the stainless american cheap crap.


I would not be scared at all to use any luger regardless make.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

I have a friend who has managed to break (shatter)a breech block in a pre-war (WWI) Luger, otherwise near mint (it hurts even writing about it), and also break a center toggle link in a 1917 DWM. I do not know nor have been unable to establish if very hot loaded ammo was a factor, but can tell you as a fact that both pistols were matched, excellent condition examples. While I agree that current condition is a major consideration, I have to say that IMO, I prefer and just feel a bit more secure in using a Mauser as my "shooter". I think that the metalurgy was a bit improved and the technology was at it's peak during the Mauser era. I think that spring replacement is a good idea in any shooter. I don't think that shooter saftey is a big or unusual issue with the Luger in general, but rather parts breakage and in that area I have to give at least a slight nod to Mauser.

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

Hi


I have seen the middle toggle broken on DWM and I have seen a hole number of different reartoggles cracked.

The cracked realtoggle is actually quite common and this is a thing everyone should look for when buying a luger.


I have seen both DWM and mauser breach blocks in two parts.


But all those problems is nothing compered to the big volume those pistols have been manufactured in.

Its also nothing that ever had been any risk for injury of the shooters.


I have never seen a blown up luger, is here anyone who owns or have seen any?


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

Hakan, what caused these failures? EOM (EOM)
 

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

HÃ?Â¥kan:


YOU WROTE: "I have never seen a blown up luger."


My apology for using the comment, "blown up," in my original post.


"Blown up" is merely a figure of speech in English and normally not meant to be taken literally. I simply meant that something in the Luger could fail mechanially, possibly resulting in injury to the user.


I appreciate your earlier comment in which you suggested that the WW-II Lugers were less likely to suffer mechanical failure. I am currently considering a byf-41 or byf-42 as a shooter.


Thanks again.

Re: Hakan, what caused these failures? EOM
 

The cracks in the rear toggle is caused by wrong contruction and much use.


The other problems was maybe caused by occasionally to hard parts?

I don't know, i only have the parts and have not seen the accidents.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

Ok i understand.


It would however be very interesting to see a blown up Luger to see what happends.

Where the extra preasure goes, and if there is any risks for the shooter.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

Re:"Blown UP" lugers
 

I've replaced several cracked luger receivers over the years for customers, but my observation has been that the pistol will jam up and not fire, before anything blows, with normal loads, of course. There's probably someone out there that dumped 2 or 3 times the normal amount of Bullseye powder in a case, and had more excitement than I ever want to attempt.

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

well me personally the only history of a luger that im interested in is me stooting the hell out of it and not going through the years of neglect and abuse that many people in this room seem to glamourize. My new stoeger is forged stainless steel and is built"original" to the point that it prefers 124 grain 9mm parabellum--- the actual weight of ww1-ww2 german ammo. safety is inherent in the design unless to try to handload a 9mm magnum tolerance. mine is new well cared for and safe. find one. as for that hakan--all he does is butchers lugers from their original aesthetics to being functional and ugly like the ruger mark 2--though i own and love mine

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

Regardless of what you call your guns they are not forged but cast from very poor cheap soft stainless steel.

You'r comments only show that you not seems to know anything about steel and not have the feeling for quality.


Anyone that knows a little bit over the average about semiautomatic pistols know that stainless steels as normally used by gunproducers is highly inferior to the kinds of alloy steels that normally is used to guns.


To compere a DWM luger with a Stoeger stainless is like compering apple and pears.

The Luger as once produced is the most well made handgun ever been put into massproduction while the stoeger/mitchell/aimco luger ain't worth the cheap piece of steel it's made out of.

I wouldent bend my back to take one up if i found one lying on the pavement.


The fact that you dislike my guns is fully up to you and I would kindly like to inform you about the point with those guns is targetshooting.


Kind Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr - I must ask you...
 

to refrain from using emotionally charged negative comments about stainless Lugers in the message board. I understand your point of view, and while it may be an acurate point of view, you need to recognize that there are people who own these weapons and for whom the weapon has proved serviceable and has value.


For you to be calling it "a piece of crap" is not only uncalled for, but is in very poor taste. Please use better judgement in future. By all means state your belief that you feel that the metal is not as good quality as the original Luger, and provide proof if you wish, but refrain from disparaging remarks about Steoger as a company or the stainless steel Luger.


Dok (Webaster)

Re: Shooting Lugers (Safety Issue)
 

Hakan,


I for one would like to know the differences in hardness and tensil strength between DWM Lugers and the modern SS Lugers - do you have that information available? I have not heard of a SS failure. I assume you are referring to structual problems or is it some other failure mode?


Casting is just a way to manufacture a product that is cost effective and one that the general public can afford. In this day and age it would be very expensive to manufacture the same way as it was done 50-100 years ago and not very effective for the average gun buyer. Newer technology allows lower prices. As you are well aware automobiles are made up of many cast components just as airplanes, including the turbine blades in jet engines and they seem to work as intended. The idea is not to overdesign a product, but produce a product that will do the job as advertized at an economical price.


Regards,

A laff a minute... (EOM)
 

Re: A laff a minute...
 

Now children; play nice!


I just realized that this is really a "Show and Tell" for big kids.

("You can tell the age of the boy, by the price of the toy")


I guess some people were never learned the rules in kindergarten.


Send them to the "Time Out" corner DOK


I don't feel so bad now.

It was NOT me!

Re: A laff a minute...
 

But if we wait awhile... your turn will come again

Re: HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr - I must ask you...
 

I am sorry for maybe overexpressing my self, I got a bit mad when I wrote it.


Even though my opinions about the earlyer menationed "guns" is the same.


Probably is here a difference in American and European writing. When Jan Liborel or mostly other gunwriters tests a gun in a magazine they will write that its good.

Even though many times the quality is much lower than good, regardless of guntype.

I have many tiems for example read that Colt Gold Cup is state of the art and Colt Pythons are the Revolvers Rolls royse.

Both statements are lyes and probably pretty well payd lyes.

Both guns are far from good enough for seriuos competition and not even good for plentyfull plinking.

And those things probably shows pretty well that many americans not like or should read the truth, just as long as its politely written it's ok.

Last I would like to point out that I cannot understand how some people can take my critisism about a commersial product personal.

My critisism is only about the product and not about the owners.

To me it's about to help lesser knowing people to avoid some of the deep traps in this field.


Best Regards HÃ?Â¥kan





http://www.vapensmedjan.com

Re: H?an Spuhr - I must ask you...
 

H?an:


Re. your:


"Last I would like to point out that I cannot understand how some people can take my critisism about a commersial product personal.

My critisism is only about the product and not about the owners."


It is a common character flaw these days:

That a person often feels; that he "IS", what he "Owns".


It is a sad commentary on the human condition.


It is NOT I believe; a trait exclusive to Americans.


I, for one welcome your opinion;

But I regard it as just that;

An "opinion"

All be it; one based on a wealth of experience.

Re: HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr - I must ask you...
 

well look you like your guns for pulling them apart and customizing--i like mine for shooting and nostalgia with accuracy while being brand new so lets part ways and just respect each other. if and when my guns barrel bursts or its toggle shears off ill let you know. the fact is we are all fraternal and passionate about lugers which is a very good thing. we are a unique breed of people with keen appreciation. that is what makes us and this web site forum special and my apologies to all on this site including dok and john sabato.

That's the spirit, well done guys! (EOM)
 

Re: That's the spirit, well done guys!
 

I find the comments about stainless steel auto pistols very intersting. I also own one of the new AIMCO Lugers. Mr. Spuhr seems to be an experienced machinist and metalurgist and I do not have the knowledge to agree or disagree with his views on how appropriate SS is for a pistol such as a Luger. However, I have some opinions that pertain to this discussion. There is a finite number of pistols that were made prior to 1945 and by Mauser in the 1970's. Who knows how many are lost or destroyed every day? With that in mind, unless someone produces more of them, someday we will only be able to look at them in museums! It might be better if AIMCO was making them from carbon tool steel but they are not. The one I have seems to be very accurate and I like the way it looks. The feeding problems seem to be tied to both ammunition brand and individual magazines. Having a "replica" also means that I can buy accessories that are original or newly made replicas! Do I want an older gun? Yes. But that does not mean that I do not like the one that I have. It is fun to shoot.