1911 Erfert
 

Can anyone tell me what the value of an all-matching 1911 Erfurt with 80% bluing and some slight pitting? Apears to be in Good+ to Very Good condition. All stampings are deep and clear, and has many crown-shaped proofs.

Thanks

1911 Erfurt .30
 

I just heard back from the gunsmith I took my 1911 Erfurt P08 to and it seems that the pistol is chambered in .30. Could anyone tell me why this is so? Could it have been a foreign export P08 or what? Any ideas?

Jim,

Original Erfurt's were only produced in 9 mm. Your gun could have been reworked after the war for commercial sales or it could have had the barrel replaced some time in it's life with a .30.

Is the barrel numbered to the gun? Does the gun have commercial proof marks (Crown over N). Does the barrel have a proof or rework stamp E/XX, etc. Pictures would help.

Thanks,
Bob M.

I will include the only two I have. Everything including the barrel matches, though none of the stampings are bright and shiny like I see on some of the ones here. There may have been a mistake, this is just what I heard over the phone from the guy. Many proof marks with crowns above them scattered about the gun. I will try to get some better pictures to post up here.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img024.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img025.jpg

Jim, looking at your photos, which are not conclusive, I would bet that your pistol is a 9mm.

As to why .30 cal, after WWI, returning dough boys were enticed to send their trophies in to several mailorder houses to have barrels switched out. Some were switched for longer barrels but many were switched for .30 calibre which was likely a cheaper ammo at the time.

What I think I see as proof and serial number stampings into your barrel would lead me to think it just might be the original barrel. Be careful before loading and shooting.

Thanks George. The fellow doing the inspection has a Luger, and says he has dealt with them before, so I'm not sure why he would say that. Every piece on the pistol that I could find matches, including the barrel, so it makes me wonder what could have happened. Could he have made a mistake, or could something have been done post-war to resize the barrel? This makes me wonder though. If anyone knows of a gunsmith in the North Carolina area that has had experience with the P08 I would appreciate a name, I don't particularly want to blow the barrel off the family heirloom.

Oh, and just for clarification by .30 I mean 7.65 as well, .30 is just what the guy referred to it as.

Just a thought, but the barrel could have been relined at some point. The barrel may have had a bad bore. This is/was a fairly common practice.

Ron

The gun has been in the family the past 40+ years, so any modifications were made prior to 1960.

Very easy to establish the caliber, if a 9mm cartridge chambers, it is a 9mm gun. I.E. a 30 Luger cart. will chamber in a 9mm & a 30 cal gun. A 9mm cart. will not chamber in a 30 cal gun, only a 9mm! :thumbsup:

Okay, new question then, assuming it was relined, how much does that hurt the value on it?

MauserJim: a lot.

--Dwight

A relined pistol. . .can it be expected to perform like a regular luger, and will standard P08 magazines hold 7.65 cartridges?

yes & yes, the 9mm is basically a "necked up" 7.65mm. The only difference in a Luger chambered for 7.65 & one chambered for the 9mm is the bbl, all other components are the same.

Mauserjim,

Hugh is essentially correct, with one caveat: if the pistol really has been relined for .30, but the recoil spring has not been replaced to match, you can anticipate operating problems due to the .30 caliber cartridge being much less powerful than 9mm.

--Dwight

Okay, thanks guys. I will go up and see the gunsmith when he is finished looking it over and see what he thinks about this and whether the spring has been replaced or not.

Update. My grandfather has told me that he has, in fact put 9mm rounds through this pistol. . .does this dissprove the gunsmith's theory?

Mauserjim,

Cut to the chase, make the test yourself. Get a 9mm round, drop it in the chamber. If it fits, it is 9mm. If it doesn't fit, its not.

--Dwight

To be honest with you, I don't know how to work it. I don't have a magazine with it (yet), so I was planning on waiting til the Gunsmith showed me how I could load it single-round when I pick it up. It's not in my possession right now as it was dropped off Tuesday.

Update, sorry for confusion
 

I have an update for you guys, sorry to have you running in circles. The Erfurt 1911 is all-matching, with all original parts. The serial number is in the 3000 area. After the thorough cleaning, finish appears to be in the 80-85% range with a small ammount of pitting. The barrel is 9mm, not .30. Here's the hitch. The barrel had a substantial ammount of corosion in the center of the bore, giving it an hourglass shape. The gunsmith cleaned it as best he could, but told us it would not be a good idea to shoot. With all these things in mind, can anyone give me a value on it (Not selling it or considering selling it, would just like to know)?

Jim, By hourglass, do you mean it has a bulge in the barrel? Jerry Burney

I have merged these threads, as they obviously go together ;)


Ed

Mauserjim,

It is very difficult to tell from the photographs, are the small parts--trigger, takedown lever, safety lever, magazine release, ejector--a yellowish straw color?

--Dwight

Just a comment for future consideration, using a standard issue round wooden pencil at the muzzle of a Luger it will not go into a .30 cal bore but will easily drop into a 9mm. A lot easier way of checking one. As far as value, in the condition the barrel is in my guess would be somewhere around $600, but I'm no expert on pricing one in any condition.

You are right, it was described to me as a bulge in the center from not cleaning thoroughly after using corrosive ammunition. Though this is something that has been in the gun for at least 40 years, as I do not think it has been fired since about 1965. I'm not sure about a straw color, they all look to be the same dark blued color to my unexperienced eyes, though it is shiny around the edges where it has seen holster wear. I really do need to get some better photos up, will get on those when I can. Thanks guys.

Jim, I have seen many a pistol with a bulge in the barrel. Sometime sub guns that have a bullet stuck on auto fire, fire another and it bulges the barrel. I don't know how it happened but I bulged a barrel on my Colt .45. It shot fine afterwards. Accurate too..I finally changed it out but I guess a gunsmith could give better advice. Obviously it's not as good as a barrel without a bulge..Jerry Burney