New collector question
 

Howdy to eveybody. I'm new to this forum & have a few questions. I collect a variety of military sidearms, especially 1911's. I've never ventured into Lugermania. There are so many angles on collecting this gun, frankly I find it intimidating.

Anyhow, I would like to get a "shooter" Luger. I've been eyeing & priceing Stoeger/Mitchells and Interarms/Mausers at local gunshows. I live near Dallas & we are blessed with some great shows.

Can anyone give me some direction: which of these will be the most reliable? What is a reasonable price to pay for a NIB piece? (I'm looking for a 4" in 9mm).

From what I've seen & handled, I like the Interarms/Mausers better, they feel like more solid construction.

Thanks in advance,

Greg

Hi Greg, Welcome to the forum. By the way, you are doomed.

Of all of the post-war Lugers. By all means get a Mauser. They are aquiring a collector following. And are rapidly going up in value. If you can find one as new in the box for $800-$1000. I would go for it. The used ones are going for around $700-$800. The Stoeger/Mitchells aren't the best, quality wise. And most people tend to shy away from them.

Good Luck! Ron

Ron,

Thanks for the reply. Do you know if the Mausers will transfer with a C&R license? I have a C&R and I thought I remember seeing them on the C&R list.

Do you know any good sources I should check on for a Mauser?

Thanks again,

Greg

Greg,
I see that George Anderson directed you to Tom A's post. You can't go wrong there.

Tom and George are A-1 and can be trusted without hesitation. Both are very advanced collectors.

Ron

These are C&R Mauser Parabellums:

Luger, Model 1902 Cartridge Counter, Mauser commercial, semiautomatic pistol, cal. 9mm, mfd. 1982.

Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 70 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, Kelsoreich Russiand, commemorative, cal. 9mm.

Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 76 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, 1900-1975, commemorative, cal. 7.65mm.

Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 75 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, Konigreich Bulgarian, commemorative, caliber 7.65mm.

Luger, Mauser Parabellum, semiautomatic pistol, 7.65mm or 9mm Luger, 4 and 6" barrel, Swiss pattern with grip safety and the American Eagle stamped on the receiver; made from 1970 to 1978.

Mauser Luger, serial number 11.010034, 9mm, special engraving and ivory grips.

Mauser Luger, serial number RG 900/1001, 9mm, special engraving and walnut grips.

Simpson Ltd. has them from time to time...

For example: http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=2422

I have been told by Simpson Ltd. that a C&R FFL is sufficient for any of these Interarms Mauser Parabellums... however, it might be wise to verify with BATFE 1st!

Good luck with your quest!
NICE pistols
:)

Two months ago I received a NIB Interarms Mauser with my C&R. I did not even consider that it might be disqualified as it is based on or a replica of a firearm over 50 yr old. Those ATF rules can be read many different ways. Something like the Bible.

That is why it says 50 years or older unless it is on the list. Otherwise, then winchester 1894 30-30's made last year would qualify, as would the new colt 1911A1's, etc...


You really need to check the rules, but as an example, a friend got a "east" german Makarov (which is C&R) sent to him and it turned out to be a bulgie, which is not C&R... But I bought it from him and it makes a nice carry gun if I am so inclined :)


Ed

Greg,

Ron is right. You are doomed. A friend ask me awhile back if I wanted to buy a luger? I did, so I hooked up with these guys. Well, I thought I knew a lot about guns :) If you think those 1911's are difficult, you just wait until you get sucked into these lugers. The bad part is that you can't learn everything you need to know so you have to rely on these guys to help you. Well, you have come to the right place. They are awesome!

So what do you think of Colts 1911 WWI "reissue"? I figured if I got one of those, I'd have one from each side of the trench.

Welcome to the forum!

Steve

Steve, when I want a solid piece of steel in my hand, I grab a 1911A1, not much better feels as good in my hand, although that is because for about 14 years I carried one for duty off and on ;)

Steve,

If you can get one of the 1911 WWI reissue, do it. It is one of my favorite 1911's. You comment "Both sides of the trench" is exactly what I'm planning on doing. I want to set up a display with the WWI 1911 and a nice Luger replica (Interarms/Mauser). This forum is great. Thanks for everybodies' input.

Greg

I understand about the rules, Ed. I bought the piece under the rule that it was a commemorative or of special interest or value due to........ I don't remember the rest. It wasn't necessary ( in my estimation) to find a specific mention of the item in the piece by piece list. This is what I mean by reading the rules different ways. I'm sorry I didn't clarify the statement about replicas in my earlier post.

Interarms Lugers
 

Hi:

I had the same discussion with Bob down there. There should be something in writing somewhere regarding the C&R status of these "non listed" Mauser pistols.

Where do we look for assurance, as a call to the BATFE yielded nothing but frustration for me.

Sieger

Sorry, didn't mean to sound cranky, didn't mean it that way. The "rules" are a pain in the rear of figuring out at times. As replica blackpowder is also like you say and they are brand new made.

:cheers:

Ed

Sieger, here is the current C&R list ---
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/sec2.htm
Here is an update that has a couple of Lugers on it --
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/0301to0603update.htm

Also go to bottom of the list and click 'Back' and it'll take you to other C&R info.

Dear Herb:


Thanks for your post. It verifies Stymies post above.

Clearly, if there is no update since their 2003 list, not all Mauser Parabellums are covered.

For instance:

The Navy Parabellum Commemorative

All of the non-commemorative P-08 frame Interarms Mausers

I guess, I still have the same concern. Would Bob be selling on C&R licences non C&R items? Not likely.

Sieger

It's possible that Simpson has mis-interpreted the C&R listing and is in fact selling them as such.

Ed,

I've never owned a 1911 but I want to get one. It's on my dream list. So where were you that you packed one for 14 years? Does your hip hurt :)

Steve

Ed,

I do own and carry a Sig P220 .45 and I love it. I'm a lefty so I really liked the no safety feature on the Sig. Whenever I grab a handgun with the safety on the wrong side, I'm all fumble fingers. Many of the new ones these days have the safety for either side. Can a guy switch the safety on a Colt? If so, I'll have to take a hard look at them. I do however want a Colt just to have a piece of history. I did pack a Ar in the Service and I learned to adapt. Even though the safety was on the wrong side, I learned to work it with no problem.

Steve

oops, I guess I should have said, I packed a M-16 in the service. The AR is the civilian semi-auto version. I was in the Air force "after" Vietnam and all I got to shoot was paper targets. I was a Secuirty Policeman which was a fancy term for a "guard". I did like it though. I got to be around those multi-million dollar aircraft. Oh we have some awesome firepower! I wish I was back in. I miss all of that!

Steve

Steve,

There are numerous Colt 1911 clones (Springfield, Kimber, Wilson, etc...) that are available with ambidexterous safeties. As an alternative, any competent pistol smith should be able to install an ambi-safety on a 1911. It's a very popular aftermarket accessory.

I've been "into" 1911 collecting for 14 years. They are wonderful pieces of American History. Like potato chips (or Lugers for that matter), "once you've had one, you just can't stop."

Greg

Interarms Parabellums
 

Herb:

I guess I'll have to question the situation further, and will certainly NOT buy an item if it isn't specifically on the list.

Thanks!

Sieger

I retired as a 20-yr MP, multi-purpose as well as Military Police, carried and shot the 1911 for many years, then the M9 Berreta, both fine, I just like the 45 ACP better if my life depends on it, although bullet placement is far more important than the whoosh of a 45 going past :D

I have been told, and I interpreted the listing of C&R that all the Interarms Lugers were covered...

As I thought this covered them all (as Stymie stated):

Luger, Mauser Parabellum, semiautomatic pistol, 7.65mm or 9mm Luger, 4 and 6" barrel, Swiss pattern with grip safety and the American Eagle stamped on the receiver; made from 1970 to 1978.

As the AE model is NOT a swiss model, so it covers the 4 and 6 inch barrel.


It covers the models from 1970-1978, and the commeratives are covered sep.

Ed

Interarms Confusion
 

Ed:

Looking at the legal construction of the sentence, the comma and semi-colon would appear to mean "and" not "or".

P-08 frame pistols that are not commemoratives are clearly not listed anywhere.

The confusion continues.

Sieger

Greg,

Thanks for the information on the safety. I've always known that the 1911 was an awesome gun, but I was afraid to go there for fear that I would love it. It's kind of like my first luger that I got in May. "This stuff is addictive! I love them! I'll keep shopping but I know I have to get one.
A 1911 sitting in a US marked holster is damn near as patriotic as the flag!

Steve

I picked up one of the parked 1911A1 COLTs from the Custom Shop & I have to tell you... it's super accurate & totally reliable! One of my 1st pistols was a Remington Rand 1911A1... so I picked this one up out of sheer nostalgia. Glad that I did! The carbonia blue 1911s are absolutely gorgeous pieces too.

I'll never retire :) You guys will cost me a fortune :) My next gun will either be a Luger or a 1911. I just need to do some more homework and save up a little more $$$. I have already learned that you have to have the cash on hand so when you see the one you want, you can grab it. If you snooze, you loose.

Steve

Just to get your appetite going . . .
 

This is my favorite "shooter" 1911:
http://www.hunt101.com/img/301809.JPG

This is a Colt Custom Shop special (1 of 200)
"Colt 1991 Commando"
Beaded stainless finish. Officer slide on a full size frame. Lots of fun Custom Shop internals. This is a great shooter. Grips are by Alumagrip.

Nice, very nice. Great photo! I'll let you know if I get a 1911. Choices, choices, choices. But boy is it fun :)

Re: Interarms Confusion
 

Sieger, I don't know this as fact; but I didn't think there were Swiss "models" WITH an American Eagle on them?


Ed

Don't do it Steve. Them dang old 1911's are almost as bad as them Lugers when it comes to clearing out the bank account! You can't stop with just one!!!

Hi everyone,

The comment "both sides of the trench" reminded me of a letter I read many years ago in one of the gun magazines. It was written by a WW II veteran in response to the ".45 vs. 9mm" debate that used to get so much coverage. It seems that this guy found himself in a one-on-one shoot out with a german who was armed with a Luger. He was armed with a 1911. He said he took a round in the chest from the Luger, but was able to return fire and kill the german with his 1911. He closed the letter by stating that he still owned both guns! Talk about your war trophies.

DougT

Fish Story
 

Doug:

I don't doubt in any way that you did read the above account. but it certainly sounds like a good old fish story to me!

Let's see, after he was shot through the chest, he somehow shot the German and then ran over and calmly picked up the guy's Luger to bring home with him.

Really, there is no debate. The 9mm FMJ obviously doesn't have the stopping power of the .45 FMJ, but his "story" seems a little over done to me.

Sieger

Interarms Confusion
 

Ed:

I think all of the Swiss frame (straight grip in front) models had the Great Seal of the US over their chambers.

Sieger

Thanks, didn't know that, does make a difference in my thinking, ;)