1917 Artillery my first luger
 

I've been a gun enthusiast all my life and in a couple of weeks I will be getting my first luger. I've always dreamed of having one since I was a kid. I was raised on "Combat, Rat Patrol and Twelve O'clock High. Ok, that's my history:) I've really been reading over this web site and I am amazed at what I have learned in a few days. There is so much I don't know but I'm willing to learn. I need some help OK? This luger stuff is ADDICTIVE!

A friend of mine in Montana had a neighbor pass away and his wife gave him the luger which belonged to her husband. He got it from his dad. His Dad brought it back from Hungary in 1938 or 39. There is more history on the gun but none of it is documented. The story has been passed along in the family since then. My buddy knew I would be interested and has offered it to me for a fair price. Hopefully, you guys can help me on that.

I haven't seen it yet, but I will try and post some pictures that were sent to me. My buddy says the bluing is about 50%. No pitting. The odd thing about this piece is that the right side grip is wore smooth. Does anyone know why this is? The gun is reported to be all original. The numbers match with the exception of the magazine. The gun is fully operational and has a holster, and cleaning kit. It is a 1917 DWM Artillery Ser # 48xx. Once I get it, I can post some better pictures which will help, but if any of you can help me, I'd appreciate it. This is a piece that I will keep forever and hand down to my son or son-in-law. I'm considering maybe having it refinished, (I've been reading about Thor) but I'm reading a lot of different opinions on whether or not a guy should do that. I'll decide that later. Can you estimate a fair price that I should pay. The guy is a friend of mine, but at the same time, it didn't cost him anything. I naturally want a good deal, but I want to be fair about it as well. He's delivering the gun to me in a couple of weeks and said, "pay me what it's worth".

I'm sorry to not be better informed and I don't recall the exact name on the markings. You can't see it in the photos, but it has the three crowns and eagle on the right side of the breach. Ok, I know your laughing and someone will tell me what they are called.

Anyway, thanks for helping and thanks for letting me join you.

Steve

I thought I posted the pictures. I'll try again. Sorry.

picture 1

picture 2

picture 3

Hi Steve,

At this point the value is subjective. The holster alone, I would speculate to be $300-$400+. The pistol looks to be approximately 50-60%.
Without being able to see better photos. My guess would be $1000 - $1200 for the pistol. A fair price, in my opinion, would be $1300-$1400 for the rig. Others may have different opinions, but I would offer him $800- $900 since it was a freebie. Forum member Hugh Clark does an outstanding job of recheckering grips, and not that spendy.

Ron

Ron,

Thank you so much. I'll be sure to take better photos when I have it in hand. I'll also check into getting the grips recheckered. I tell ya, that smooth grip really has be baffled. I wish I knew what happend to it. It doesn't seem to me it would wear like that from normal use. Especially when the other one is ok.

Thanks again. You've been very helpful.

Steve

Steve , It's really hard to say. Maybe the grip got damamged or someone's name or initials were removed. It was very common for some GI's to carve their initials into the right grip or even inlay some sort of ornimentation.

Ron

Ron,

Thank you. Maybe the guy was just real nervous and whittled away at it. :) My grandfather was in the trenches in France in WW I and to pass time, he collected all the aluminum foil wrappers from chewing gum. In those days, the wrapping was solid aluminum foil. He packed them into a softball size ball and to this day, my brother now has it. He said it was just something he did to pass time when it was quiet and couldn't leave it behind when he came home. If this gun saw any action, who knows what happened. I'll give it a closer inspection when I get it.

Thank you!

Steve

I think Ron's got the values down very well. Nice find.

Gunman,

Thank you. I'm pretty excited about getting it. However, I'm afraid this may be the the start of something that my wife just won't understand :)

Steve

Steve,

Congratulations on your first Luger. I agree with Ron on the values. This gun would make an excellent restoration candidate for Thor. As far as your wife "understanding," I wouldn't worry about that. Just tell her it's not a matter of need (in response to her saying "how many do you need?"). My wife doesn't understand either, but she loves me enough to accept that the Lugers are something I really enjoy. It also helps to bribe them occasionally with jewelry and other nice things. Enjoy!

DougT

Doug,

You got that right. Jewelry, dinner, wine and flowers. I guess that's all part of the purchase price :) Yes, I will be getting in touch with Thor after I get the piece in hand so I can send him better detailed photos. I've seen pictures of some of his work and they look to be awesome. I need to read up on more of this process so I can have a better idea of what it's all about. However, even after I read it all, I still won't know enough. More than anything I need to rely on the experts. I've learned that sometimes you have to trust the guy that has been there and done it.

THANK YOU,

Steve

Steve,
I would hold off of the restoring/rebluing of you gun. Really sleep on it. Once its been reblued, it is no longer a collectors piece and the value drops a lot.

Look at the bore. If the bore is in terrific shape then I would consider sleeping a bit longer while thinking about restoration. It is really hard to determine condition from just pictures. What sort of condition are the grip straps?

Take your grips off and look on the back side to see if they have been numbered to the gun. If the smooth grip is not numbered to the gun then maybe that grip was traded off somewhere along the way. Be careful in removing the grip on the left side. It can break easily up near the safety.

I could not see the holster very well. Is the strap broken or is it just folded over? What is the date on it and who is the manufacturer. If it is a 1914 or 1918 dated holster, it may very well be worth more than the gun. Who the manufacturer is is also another story. Generally speaking, the holster doesn't look in that bad a shape and could add considerable value to your purchase. Ask the seller if there is any more leather that comes with the holster. Straps and the cup could add considerably more value to your purchase.
Big Norm

Big Norm,

I sincerely want to thank you. Your comments are very helpful. I understand that doing a restoration is a huge consideration and I just don't know which way to go on that yet. Part of me says, yes, but then again, I like "original". I can't answer any other questions about the condition on the gun or holster right now. I will get my hands on it Monday. When I do. I'll post more pictures and hopefully, you and others can help me even further.

I'm really impressed with the help everyone has offered up to me. If we all lived closer, I'd throw a luger barbecue to say thanks.

Sincerely,

Steve

Re: 1917 Artillery my first luger
 

Personnally I always liked the 50 cal on the jeep! ;)

I too always liked those type of shows, might be why I like Lugers, SSA's, 1911's, WW2, etc :D

Ed,

Did you know that the whole "Combat" series is now available on DVD? They are awesome. High resolution, etc. It really brings back memories for me. Now I'm going to be looking for lugers in the episodes :)

Steve

I saw them for sale at wally world, and almost bought the series, now I'll have to!

Ed

Steve, Let me add my welcome to the Lugerforum and congrats on a wonderful Luger to be your first...

I might speculate on the smooth grip that the owner may have thought that the grips would be better without checkering and then after doing one, decided that it would be a mistake and didn't do the other... or more likely, the original right hand grip may have been cracked or otherwise damaged, and the first replacement that the owner found was already smooth, but made the gun functional again...

Your holster seems to be in super condition for it's age... don't put ANYTHING on it. Just brush it clean and keep it cool and dry. I recommend that you keep it full of bubble wrap to maintain the shape...NEVER store the gun in the holster. That is bad for both of them... We don't want to contaminate that ancient leather with gun oil, or to have the natural tendency of dry leather to collect moisture and hold it against the gun.

Once again Welcome and congrats... and preserve that piece of history for future generations...

PS - COMBAT! was probably my favorite TV series as the child of a WW2 vet... One of the few memories of sharing time with my Dad (who will be 86 in July)....we never missed an episode.

John,

Thank you very much. I suspect you may have the smooth grip situation figured out. I'm really anxious to get my hands on it and take a closer look. I'm really hoping it was just smoothed out verses being a crack. Thanks for the tips on the holster. I'll be sure to do what you suggest.

As a side note, I don't want to turn this into a forum for "Combat", but you got to get the series. It is AWESOME watching them over again. I keep thinking I'll see one that I recognize, but I was too young when they first aired them. Maybe 12 or so. They are on Amazon for purchase. I'll trust you on the Luger advise. You have to trust me on the Purchase of "Combat". Besides, you need to do it to watch it again with your Dad. He'd love it and so would you.

Thanks again.

Sincerely,

Steve

John,

Any chance your Dad was in the Navy? My father-in- law is 82 and was a gunner on the Yorktown in the Pacific. He never has purchased a Honda car :) These guys are sincerely, America's greatest generation! I guess that's one reason why I love these war era guns. In a special way, the guns are helping to presere the history while these guys are gradually passing on. It won't be long and they'll all be gone.

Steve

Steve, my Dad served with E-Co., 2nd Bn, 39th Inf Reg, 9th Infantry Division http://www.oldreliable.org/graphics/9_75.gif .

His first combat experience was to have the USS Thomas Stone torpedoed out from under him while approaching the first landing in North Africa in 1942. He served in every major campaign (8) that the 9th participated in during WW2:

Algeria-French Morocco
Tunisia
Sicily
Normandy
Northern France
Ardennes-Alsace
Rhineland
Central Europe

He has always claimed to have been the 2nd soldier of the 9th Division to have seen Cherbourg France just before the siege. He saw it when he raised his head up out of a foxhole behind a hedgerow, and found himself peering through a very large projectile hole through the head of the man kneeling in front of him... the man had remained motionless after being struck. It is a vision that still haunts him.

He was awarded the Bronze Star for Valor, and two Purple Hearts... The first for a shell or grenade fragment in his ankle, The second wound was received just weeks before the end of the war in Europe. A MG bullet through his upper left thigh while running through a field outside of Winterberg Germany. It took him out of the action for the rest of the war.

This September 23-24-25th, the 9th Infantry Division Association will celebrate it's 60th Annual Reunion in Washington, DC. and hold it's memorial service at the WW2 memorial. I am proud to be part of the reunion committee, and one of the co-founders of the Sons & Daughter's Auxiliary of the 9th Infantry Division Association...

He truely is one of the Greatest Generation, and has always been my personal hero... The toughest guy I have ever known, now walks with a cane, favoring the leg where he was wounded...

As we approach Memorial Day, my hat is off to all of his generation whose sacrifices gave us the freedoms we enjoy today... your Dad included of course :)

Our debt of gratitude to all these vets is enormous!

John,

You said it all! God bless your father and all the men who served with him. I fly the flag on every memorial day for all of those that never returned. In fact, I'm giving serious consideration to putting up a permanent flag pole so I can fly it everyday! I just need to wire it so I can light it up at night. My plan is to have the biggest flag in the neighbor hood.

Your Dad and all the war vets are sincerely my heros.

Sincerely,

Steve

Everyone,

I can't tell you how excited I am. I just became a Luger owner. It's offically mine and what is so exciting to me is that the piece is in better condition than I thought. The pics don't really represent how good of shape it's in. I tried taking some pictures but I really need to get a macro attachment that can handle the close up pictures. The pictures posted look like it is lacking in bluing. It is not except for a couple of small places. I'm not a collector so I really don't know how to judge this, but it looks maybe 75- 80%. I really can't judge this like a pro. By the first photos, I was thinking it would maybe need a restoration. No way. It is in too good of shape. I sincerely will try to get some pics when I get a macro attachment that will handle the photos that I know you need.

The right grip will need to be retored. It has been smoothed out and is much "blacker" than the left. I still need to remove the grips and inspect them further. For now, it's tucked away and I'm still on my "Luger High from all of this.

Some of you said the holster was pretty good. It looks good to me. All the stiching is in place. The color is good and I will submit photos on that too as soon as I can. The strap is torn in half in the hole where it locks. It has the cleaning rod and the other tool (?) in the holster. Other than the strap it looks to be in great condition.

Here's the markings on the holster. On the strap is "Maury & Co. Offenbacham. On the front of the holster is "Hermflohr coln 1915.

Can you guys provide me more input on this information? I know photos will help and I'll do that ASAP. I know as soon as I get this one figured out, I'll want another one :)

Thanks again for all your help.

Steve

Steve, when you mention the Maury &Co marking you write that it is on the strap, what strap are you referring to? Is there a shoulder strap included?

George,

It is the strap that goes over the top from the back. The writing is right on top of the holster if it were closed up. It is the strap with the "brass bead" ( I don't know what you call that) on it which fastens into the other piece on the front. The piece on the front is the one which is torn at the hole which fastens over the bead. Sorry, this is hard to describe this. I'm looking into getting a macro attachment for my camera today.........another Luger expense :)

Steve

George,

Sorry, I forgot to mention there is no shoulder strap.

Steve

Steve,

Glad to hear that it's better than the photo shows it. Jerry Burney can replace the torn strap. You won't be able to tell that it was ever replaced.
Ron

Steve, be extremely careful removing the left grip, as it has a tendency to chip under the safety because of close tolerances on fitting... and the fact that in many cases, they have been attached to the gun for decades without being removed.

Once you remove the screw that holds it, try rapping on the backstrap near the stock lug with a plastic or rubber mallet, or a small block of wood to see if the grip will pop free on it's own. should that fail press carefully with your finger inside the mag well near the bottom to break the "seal" of years of compression against the metal.

The grips should be removed from bottom to top. They don't just lay flat on the gun. The right grip should be the easiest to remove.

Treat them with care... they are as old as the gun!

Good Luck.

Ron and John,

Thank you both for your advise. I will be sure to follow your precise directions on removing the grips. John, your directions are real good on how to remove them. I'll let you know how it goes. I won't be able to do anything until this weekend. Since I got the gun, my work schedule has been crazy. Of course some of that time at work has been talking about this gun and this forum.

Ron, I'll be sure to look up Jerry Burney on the holster repair.

You guys are awesome with all your help.

Sincerely,

Steve

Steve, it sounds as if your holster has some nonstandard modification, when you are able, please post a photo showing the part marked with Maury&Co.

George,

Here are some more photos on the holster. Thanks for your help.

Steve

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...__co_copy1.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...1915_copy1.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...er_4_copy2.jpg

Here are three more photos which are better than the original ones posted. The gun actually has more bluing on it than I thought based on the original photos. When I first saw the gun "in hand", I was awfully excited.
My wife is now calling me "luger boy" :) I guess she could tell I was pretty excited.

Steve

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/rt_side.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...side_copy1.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload..._holster_1.jpg

Thanks to John's detailed instructions on how to remove the grips, I decided to give it a try. fortunantly, they came off easy. I found no markings on the inside of the grips. Should there be?

I also saw some markings on the frame on the left side under the grips. Do you guys know what they mean?

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...side_frame.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/grips_1.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/backside_grips.jpg

Thank you,

Steve