Something to clarify about Mauser Parabellum.
 

Hello guys,
I would like to point out your attention about a few points to be clarified about Mauser Parabellum .

The first point is related to the transition serial number from the 29/70 model to the 06/73 in .30 Luger caliber. Our friend Gerben has a 1972-and-a-half variation ( a sort of transitional model ) with serial number 10.004187. A 29/70 model with serial number 10.004063 is currently for sale on the Forum. Therefore the transition is placed somewhere between 4063 and 4187. Now the questions:
Do you have some 29/70 or 06/73 (.30 Luger) with serial number that falls in this range?
Do you have a 29/70 model (.30 Luger) with serial number greater than 10.004187? In this case the 29/70 model was still produced together with the 06/73 model for a while.

The second point is related to the amount of Mauser Parabellum produced in .30 Luger. I have seen a late production numbered 10.005647 and dated 1986. I guess this pistol belonging to the real last production. Do you have pistols with serial number grater than this one? I guess that the production of commercial .30 calibers was around 5000 pistols. Do you have information about this point?

The last point is related to the early production. In another topic (http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=11862), we have already analyzed the first production. We highlighted that the first 50 pistols (prototypes) in caliber .30 Luger have a particular configuration, different from the normal production. I have bought one of this, the number 19 (10.00.10019). Do you have notice about the other 49?


Any information about the above points is really appreciated.

Ciao
Mauro
:cheers:

Hello fellows,
I am continuing my research about .30Luger Mauser Parabellum numbering. We already highlight that the first 50 pistols have a special configuration (prototypes 1970-71).
The transition between the 29/70 model and the 06/73 model falls in the range 10.004063 and 10.004187 (1972).
Now the news: a Spanish friend of mine has a 06/73 with serial number 10.005461 and dated HH (1977) .
Actually I have two interesting pistol made especially for Italian market, a LP08 commemorative and a P08 both in .30Luger. The P08 serial number is 10.005558 dated IF (1985) . The LP08 commemorative in .30 Luger has the serial number 10.005647 and it is dated IG (1986) .
Therefore only 186 Mauser Parabellum in .30Luger have been produced from 1977 to 1986!! Among them at least 89 were made in the period 1985-86, mainly for the Italian market (around 150 pistols between P08 and LP08 in .30Luger)
It means that the production of the 06/73 model ended around the period 1977/78 and the production of the .30Luger started again in the middle of year 80 for special production.
I guess it is interesting.
Let me know your opinion.
Ciao
Mauro
:jumper:

06/73 made in 1977:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...od_luger_1.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...od_luger_6.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...od_luger_7.jpg



My couple P08 and LP08 both in .30Luger made in 1985-86:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/163.jpg

Undated prototype number 10.00.1019 (around 1970-71)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p7.jpg

Hi Mauro,

It confirms my suspicion that many Mauser Parabellums had a very, very, very long shelf life.

Mauro , I have a 30 luger stamped 72 and number on recever up the ejec. and on the frame up the trigger n#10.003260.
The bottom frame like 29 suiss
No interarm...., Original Mauser

Thank you Patrice,
I owned too a 1972 Mauser Parabellum number 10.003967.
I would like to build a sort of database related to the numbering of the .30Luger Parabellum.
Therefore any helps concerning this matter is really appreciated.
Thank you.
Mauro
:cheers:

Mauro, It sounds as though you believe that the 10. (7.65mm) prefixed Parabellums and the 11. prefix (9mms) had independent serial ranges. I don't believe this to be the case, but I'd have to do a lot more research to be sure. Tom

Hi Tom,

Interesting remark. Finding two Mausers, one in 7.65 and one in 9 mm with the same suffix behind the 10 and 11 would prove that there were two different ranges. Failure to find identical numbers on 7.65 and 9mm pistols would point towards a combined serial range, with the 10 or 11 added to signify 7.65 or 9 mm.

Mauro, my .30 Luger with 6" barrel is numbered 10. 005305

Hello fellows,
I guess that the Tomâ??s remark is interesting but I am confident that Mauser Parabellums have different serial numbers for different calibers.
Actually I would like to add the following points to the discussion:
1. All the authors (Walter, Allan page 27) highlight that the serial number of these model start from 10.001001 for the .30Luger caliber and from the 11.001001 for the 9mm Parabellum. The pilot group have the following serial number 10.0001 and 10.0002 for .30Luger, 11.0001 and 11.0002 for 9mm.
2. The second point is related to the date of production. In fact Mauser produced more 9mm models than .30luger; for this reason the 9mm models reached a big serial number before the .30luger.
Look at this example, my LP08 commemorative in .30Luger made in 1986 is numbered 10.005647; a 29/70 9mm of a friend of mine made in 1972 is numbered 11.006.347.

According to my research, the .30luger production ends around the number 5800 around 1986.
In addition:
The serial number of the .30Luger in 1972 was around 3900 (two examples 3260 and 3967 dated 1972). In 1972, the serial number of the 9mm was around 6400. In the 1974 the serial number of the 9mm models was around #11900.

Therefore is not possible to correlate serial number with year of production for both calibers. In my understanding the only way to justify this is that the two calibers have two different series of number, in accordance with books and articles.

Let me know your opinion.

Aaron please let us know the year of production.

Ciao
Mauro
:bigbye:

Hello guys,
I am happy because I have found a confirmation about my hypothesis that the most important production of Mauser Parabellum ceases in the middle of â??70 years.
If you look at the previous considerations, I have wrote that, in accordance to the serial number analysis, the Mauser produced only about 186 pistol in .30Luger from 1977 to 1986. So absolutely scarce (and therefore rare) production!
This hypothesis based on the serial number analysis found a verification in â??the Mauser Parabellumâ?� book wrote by Mr. Allan.

Mr. Allan states that, due to the unfavorable exchange rate between Germany and USA, Interarms and Mauser decided to cancel the contract in the January 1976 .

This justifies the result of my previous assumption based on the serial number analysis.

I think this is interestingâ?¦
Let me know your opinion.

Cheers.
Mauro
:typing:

Mauser ara
 

Mauro,

I have 30L number 10.002185, also have the blue & white boxes & targets ONLY for 30L # 4073, and 9mm #72729 and the target only for 9mm #8663. Does anyone have the gun to match these boxes?

Mauro, I will be happy to give you the date of production of my .30 Luger, but I must stupidly admit that I cannot find the date. It is not on the box, the target, or the pistol. Is it in the instruction booklet? I forgot to look there.

HI Aaron,
Thank for the interest in this topic.
Usually the Mauser Parabellum imported by Interarms are not dated. Your pistol should have the internal Mauser FBM mark. Actually it is possible to find Interarms pistol with the German marks (Ulm mark and related date).
In the Interarms pistol, sometimes the date is written on the test target.

Hugh thank you too for the information.
Is your pistol dated?

All information about serial number and date of production is really appreciated.
Thank you guys.
Ciao
Mauro
:cheers:

Mauro,

My pistol is Interarms marked and is not dated.

Hello Hugh,
According to my data base your pistol should be made in the 1971 or in the early 1972.

I need to collect more serial number and date to be more precise.

Any help on this matter is really appreciated.
Ciao
Mauro
:cheers:

Mauro, The only two 7.65mm Parabellums that I have left in stock are both 6" barrelled: #10.00.1067 Interarms & FBM proofed, but matching target dated 18 Dez.1970. #10.002195 Interarms FBM no original traget. Tom

Hi Tom,
Thank you so much for the useful information; I am going to increase my serial number data base.
In particular the Parabellum number 67 is really interesting.
Do you mind post some photos of this pistol?
In fact, I would like to check if this pistol shows similar features as the fist 50 prototypes.
Many thanks.
Ciao
Mauro
:typing:

Tom,
note that there is a difference of 10 pistols between yours 29/70 and the Hugh's one.
According to my data base, your pistol should be made in 1971 or in the early 1972.
Thanks.
Ciao.
Mauro
:bigbye:

Hello fellows,
In the previous points, we discussed about the Mauser early production and about the serial numbering of the Mauser Parabellum. I am continuing collecting information and documentation about this early production.

I have recently bought a complete set of articles dated 1969 that describes the production of the first models (presentation models, prototypes and early production) as well as the toolings made by Mauser and bought from Berna.

This 1969 photo shows the first two prototypes made by Mauser in 1969 to show to the NSGA and NRA.
The two prototypes are numbered 10.0001 (.30 caliber) and 11.0001 (9 mm.).
The total number of prototypes made by Mauser and numbered 10.000x and 11.000 should be around five.


I will scan the most interesting photos of these old and interesting articles and I will prepare a page on my web site. I will let you know when the page will be available.

Any idea about where these pistols are now?

For the moment look at this nice black & white photo.
Ciao
Mauro
:bigbye:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...001reduced.jpg

Mauro,

Is the series that you are refereing to the one that was published in GUNFACTS magazine? I have also been working to get the complete series and just bought copies of the one part that I was missing. It is a very good series and hopefully when John Sabato is back he will be able to post it in the reference section so that the information will be available to everyone.

Steve

Hi Steve,
yes I have bought the complete series of the 1969 Gun Fact magazines related to the Mauser Parabellum re-introduction.
They are really beautiful articles, with interesting information and pictures.
I suggest to all Mauser Parabellum funs to try to collect all the articles.
Try to follow the ebay bids and good luck.
Ciao
Mauro

Mauro,

Did you just buy a set of 8 of these last Sunday? If so, we bid against each other. They really are nice articles and formed the base for the book by Francis Allan. Do you have the Dec 1979 American Rifleman? It has an article also by Francis Allan. If not, I can email a copy to you. It makes a large file and takes a while to send but has good information and two pages of pictures.

Steve :cheers:

Hi Steve,
I have bught these articles about 2 months ago.
Yes, I have the Dec. 1979 AM.
You are right, this article are really the base to start studing the Mauser Parabellum production.
I will prepare a page in my web site with some photos extraced by these articles.
Have fun.
Ciao
Mauro

Hello fellows,
I have just received a table of Mauser Parabellum blue prints dated 21 March 1969.
The complete set of blueprints is available on my web site under Mauser Parabellum Gallery.

www.lugerlp08.com

Hereafter only a few examples. The pistol is in the early configuration like the #19 we discussed in the previous points.
Something more on the Mauser Parabellum field!
I guess really interesting.
Let me know if you note something important.
Ciao
Mauro
:typing:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/blueprint_002.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/blueprint_013.jpg

re-intro drawings
 

Do the drawings include later variations?

Mauro,

Very nice find!

Hi Noel,
The Blue prints are dated 21 march 1969 and they depict only the early configuration.
Ciao
Mauro

Hello friends,
Just noticed in the Rock Island Auction a 29/70 with serial number 10.004595 .
This is absolutely interesting because in my data base there is the number 10.004501 that belongs to a 06/73 model.
It means that for a while in the 1973 both models were produced and sold together.
So far I do not have evidence that in the 1974 both models were produced.
It should be very interesting to find a 29/70 dated more than 1973.

Please share your serial number of 30Luger Mauser Parabellum to increase the data base.

Ciao
Mauro
:typing:

Mauro,

My gun is outside of the range that you are requesting but here is what I have.

6" barrel .30cal #10.00.1336 with a target dated 18 December 1970

It has Interarms stamped on the right side and the Mauser FBM stamp on the left side. If the numbering started at 10.00.1001 then this would be only the 335th one produced.

I hope that this information helps even if it does not help with when changes were made.

Steve Richards

Steve & Mauro, My 7.65x150mm barrelled 06/70 (to use Mauser's designation) S/N 10.00.1067 also has an original test target dated 18 Dez.1970. I would guess that they test fired several hundred lugers that day, or just used targets with that date for quite a while. TH

Hi Steve & Tom,
I have already the serial number of your Mauser Parabellums in my data base but there is something news in the Steve reply.
In fact before you do not tell me that the test target was dated 18 December 1970 as the Tomâ??s Parabellum; really interesting.

Concerning the serial number, I confirm to you that, according to Mauser documentation, the numbering starts from 10.001001 (11.001001 for the Parabellum in 9mm).

For a while, the numbering follows this pattern: 10.00.axxx; then it changes in 1000.axxx (therefore one dot was missing!). Should be interesting to figure out when this change was implemented. According to my database this happens somewhere in 1971 in the range 10.00.16xx and 10.002185.

So far in my data base â??aâ?� ranges from 1 to 5. I never meet a Parabellum in .30luger with serial number grater than 10.005xxx. The last number in my data base is 10.005647.

Please continue helping me to populate the data base.

Thanks
Mauro
:typing:

Mauro, I just added another Interarms pistol to my collection. It does not have the year of manufacture. It's a PO8 pattern, 6 inch barrel, 9mm, serial number 11.04062

Aaron,
I guess you forgot a 0, the serial number should be 11.004062.
It seems to be an early production.
May you post some photos.
Thank you
Mauro

Sorry Mauro, I made an error. The actual serial number is 11.014062

Hi Aaron,
Your pistol should be done around 1972-73.
Cheers,
Mauro

Mauro,

I was wondering if your research has led you to a determination of the serial number range for the "change-over" variation 29/70 noted on page 10 of Mr. Allan's book. According to Allan, this lot of 65 pistols was "completed using whatever Swiss Model parts were still available and substituting P.08 model parts where necessary and possible. All 65 guns received five-inch .30 barrels and were imported by Interarms."

I recently examined a Parabellum that may be from this lot:
SN 10. 459X, Swiss frame, .30 cal. 5" barrel, P. 08 safety lever, American Eagle chamber, "Original Mauser" toggle, dated 73 with eagle/nitro and ulm proofs.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/9766763441.jpg


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thanks,
John

Hi John,
Thank you for your information. The transitional models, I have examined so far, are in the range 418x â?? 459x dated â??72 and â??73. In this range it is possible to find all configurations mixed. In addition for a while both pistols have been produced in parallel therefore there is not a clear â??border lineâ?� between the models.
The pistol you shown could be one of the pistols Allan mentions in his book; really interesting.
Cheers,
Mauro

Mauro, I recently acquired an outstanding 6in., 9mm, P-08 frame Parabellum, serial # 11.014210 with box and spare magazine. The paperwork and test target were missing, but the pistol looks unfired. Any idea on date of manufacture? MR

Hi Mark,
Congratulations for your nice find. Now according to my data base, your pistol should be made in 1973 early 1974. Unfortunatly so far my database for the 9mm is not so accurate as for the .30 luger. I am working on it but it is not so easy to find out dated 9mm because they were mainly sold in USA.
You can visit my web site as well for some more information about the Mauser Parabellum production.
Cheers,
Mauro

Hey can I jump in on this?

My serial number is 11.00.1821, ans was purchased on April 28 1972.

4 inch 9mm.