Additional info about Mauser Parabellum grips
 

Hello to all,
We already discussed in some topics the differences between the Mauser Parabellum grips and the Imperial one. We highlighted that the Mauser Parabellum grips do not match with the standard model.
To better point out these differences, I have shot some photos. The Mauser Parabellum wood grip is compared with an Imperial model grip.
You can clearly see the differences.
In addition, hereafter an extract from the Allenâ??s article â??Postwar Parabellumâ?� â?? American Riflemen, December 1979:
Concerning the 29/70 models â??â?¦One of the improvement incorporated by Mauser was the inclusion of two metal pins in each grip at the point where the raised interior wood rib meets the forward edge of the grip strap. This solved one of the Lugerâ??s chronic problems â?? that of loose grips resulting from worn or chipped wooden ribs. An unfortunate side effect of this change is that the grips were made somewhat wider and more squared than the normal Luger in order to be able to accept the pins. This decidedly and adversely affected the feel of the pistol. The grips on these early guns had the same smooth border associated with the Swiss 1929â?� .
The grips were modified for the 06/73 model: â??In order to provide the desired feel to the pistol, the grip forward edges were more rounded. Since this resulted in making the grips thinner, it became impossible to seat the grip pins. To achieve the same desired effect, a raised pin was placed in the middle crossmember of the frame and a corresponding hole provided in the interior of the grips. Mauser had the last succeeded in making their Parabellum look and feel a Luger.â?�

:cheers:
Ciao
Mauro

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...ontobottom.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/confrontotop.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/confrontotop1.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/confrontotop2.jpg

Great comparison photos Mauro... thanks for sharing this info.

Hi Mauro,

Interesting bit about the change in grip pin style. My 1972-and-a-half still has the old-style pins in the grip plates themselves.

Any possibility to show the frame of a pre-1973 and a post-1973 Mauser for comparison?

Hi Gerben,
I do not have photos to compare directly the 06/73 frame against P08 standard.
Maybe the attached photos can help. The first one is a comparison between a Mauser commemorative LP08 wrt a commemorative P08 (available at page 43 of my book as well).
The second photo shows a Mauser Parabellum LP08, a cut away and standard LP08.
I hope these photos help.
Ciao
Mauro
:bigbye:


http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/63.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p1_copy2.jpg

P.S. Gerben may you post some photos of your intetresting 1972-and-a-half?

Hi Mauro,

I'll make some more when my camera's batteries have been recharged :)

In the mean time, I placed the grips under the scanner. This clearly shows the old style pins. Note that the previous owner varnished them.

Note the old style takedown lever, sideplate, safety lever.
Combine this with the old style grip fixtures, but a new style (front gripstrap) frame.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/0672half.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/grips_copy1.jpg

Hi Gerben,
Definitely interesting your â??transition modelâ?�. The pins solution was no longer utilized in the late production so also your grips are quite unusual.
What is the serial number of your pistol?
It could be placed as a sort of border line between the 29/70 and 06/73 models.

Ciao
Mauro:D

Hi Mauro,

That's what I thought and as many collector's have thought up interesting names I came up with the 1972-and-a-half variation :)

The pistol has a 1972 Ulm proof and has number 10.004187.

It seems that rather than production changing from one version to another, they just utilized parts on hand, substituting new parts only when old parts were used up.

I'vel added a frame shot without grip for comparison also.

I also noticed the rather crappy workmanship of the grip screws while removing the grips.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...removed_01.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...removed_02.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/serial.jpg

Gerben,
Very interesting.
We can assume that around the serial number 4500 (more or less) the model 06/73 reaches the final configuration.
I guess that the production of the 7,65 ends around the serial number 6000 (this means 5000 pistols made).
What do you think? Can we consider this a realistic estimation?
Ciao
Mauro

Mauro,

Sounds plausible enough. Perhaps a better research of early configurations is needed. Especially in those below the 6000 serial number.

Hi Mauro,

An 06/70 with 1970-style grip in .30 luger with serial 4063 is now for sale on this forum. That one sure narrows the transition range for frames down!
Somewhere between 4063 and 4187.

Hi Gerben,
This is really interesting indeed.
I will go to open a topic related to this matter in order to try to collect more serial numbers and then better understand where the transition phase is placed.
Maybe we discover that for a certain period both models were produced. :D
It is an attractive research field.
Ciao
Mauro
:bigbye:

Mauro,

Good idea. At least we'd have better documentation than Mauser :D

Hi Gerben,
Another 1972-and-a-half variation for sale on eGun.

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=565269

:thumbup:

Nice one,

Too bad there's no accessories and no serial number.
Spent a weekend in Germany with our mutual friend Holger. He had helped to organize an oldtimer tour rallye and supplied some toys for one of the special stages. Got to shoot a brand new H&K P2000 and MP5 SF with laser sights.

We've agreed to hold the next meeting in Oberndorf :)

Hi Gerben,
Happy to hear that you meet Holger.
Actually I have planned to meet him in the last July but I was to busy to organize a meeting.
You know that I am living in Belgium now, 15 Km from Maastricht.
Therefore it should be a pleasure to me meet you an Holger as weel.
May we arrange a meetingY
Let me know.
Ciao
Mauro

Hi Mauro,

I agree. We'd definately should plan something. I am visiting a Spa show on the 23rd this month.

Something else, I noticed something weird on the toggle of my Mauser Parabellum, I found the last 3 digits of the serial number, very crudely and very faintly etched on the side of the toggle, blued over. I know the toggle wasn't reblued during the barrel replacement and I'm wondering if this etched number is common on the Mauser Parabellum. Can you check whether any of yours has the same markings?

I checked my Mauser (# 10.001336) and there are no numbers or anything else marked on the sides of the toggle links.

Except for a very low serial number, there does not appear to be anything special about it except that it is mine.

Does anyone have a correct cleaning rod for this? I have the box and everything except the cleaning rod.

Mauro, if you have any questions that I can answer about such an early number, please ask.

Steve

Steve,

thanks for checking. Could have been done as part of the repair, rebarrel, reblue and testfire scheme my pistol went through.

Mine came with a wire brush, others came with an old style cleaner.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/0673small.jpg

Hi Gerben,
Sorry for the delay in the answer but I was abroad.
As you know I just moved in Belgium and my "babies" are not still with me therefore I cannot check.
In any case I do not remember any additional serial number.
Concerning the meeting we can organise something when you are in Spa.
Let me think how we can arrange it.
Do you post a picture of the serial number you found on the toggle side.
Ciao
Mauro
:cheers:

Hi Mauro,

Here's the number. Very crudely engraved.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload..._engraving.jpg

In case you're wondering, I'm not visiting the formula one in Spa, but an ammunition collectors fair :)

Hi Gerben,
Thanks for the photo.
Now I can state without doubs that my Parabellums do not have this serial number engraved under the toggle.
This is very unusual.

You are right, I was thinking that you visiting Spa for the Formula 1 GP.
Next week end, I will be in Germany visiting friends.
Starting from the week end after we can think how have our meeting.
I have sent to you a pm with my address and telephone number.

I am looking forward to meet you.
Ciao
Mauro

Hello Gerben,
Actually I was wrong in my previous reply. In fact I have performed a double check and I have found that one of mine toggle is marked 176 in the same way that yours.
Now the question is: why?
Let me know.
Ciao
Mauro

Mauro & Gerben,

I would speculate that numbers applied by the factory in this manner happen because using the more modern methods of manufacturing that this part gets it's heat treatment and hardening sooner in the process and it may be too hard to properly use number stamps. The number is applied with a vibrating electric pencil for the convenience of the assemblers, and since it doesn't show when the gun is assembled, it doesn't have to look very neat. Just my 2 phennigs of opinion.

Hi John,
Your speculation is very realistic. I agree with you that this procedure should be implemented for helping the assemblers.
What is interesting is to figure out why not all the toggles have been marked. In fact ,so far, I see only two toggle with this engraved number. Should be interesting that some others Luger Forum collectors verify is own Mauser Parabellum.
I assume that this procedure has been followed only at the beginning of the production. But it is only a speculation.
Ciao
Mauro

Hi Mauro,

Well, very interesting that you found one in the same spot. I agree that John's idea is quite logical. Would be very interesting to see how long this practice continued. Another survey :)

btw. I'll reserve a car seat for you in the next car/gun meeting at Oberndorf.

Hi Gerben,
It is a really pleasure to participate with you to the next meeting in Oberndorf. This is the first time that I visit the Mauser city.
I am finalizing a purchase order with Holger. I really hope to meet him in this occasion as well.
I have just received five "Gun Facts" magazines dated 1969. These magazines contain five articles about the â??newâ?� Mauser Parabellum.
Believe me, plenty of interesting information and beautiful â??black and whiteâ?� photos.
I will summarize the most important points in the next days.

Ciao
Mauro
:cheers:

Mauro,
Another serial number for your collection: 10.005284.
It's a 6" .30 cal, with the grip pin location in the frame. Along with the box and all the original goodies, it came with a nickle bodied wood bottom magazine with a Mauser Banner on the spine. The receiver has a purple tinge to it and the side plate is just plain purple. I have the same coloring on a 1939 Code 42 Luger and a 1942 Eagle "C' PPK. Something to do with either the hardening of the steel, or a rush job on the bluing. I'm not sure which is correct.
Lyn

Cool Lyn,
Thank you for the info.
Any idea about the year of production? I assume that this pistol is FBM market, doesn't it?
Let me know.
Ciao
Mauro

Hi Lyn,
some other info.
According to my data base your pistol has been made in the 1974/76 period. Unfortunatly I cannot be more precise for the moment. Maybe you have the date written in the test target.
Your pistol is a 06/73 model with a particular pin that go trought the frame to block the grips, doesn't it?
Let me know.
Ciao
Mauro
:cheers:

Mauro,
Yes, it is a 06/73 with the "FBM" proof on the left rail and the frame mounted pin for the grips. The test target is signed but not dated nor is the owners manual. I will defer to you concerning the manufacturing date, as I don't know. I bought it for less than a third of what they go for today and as with all Lugers it is turning out to be a good investment. Do you have any data that might tell me how many of this version was manufactured?
Thx, Lyn

Hi Lyn,
Please find hereafter some information that can help you.
The first Parabellum in caliber .30 Luger is numbered 10.001001. According to my data base the production ends around 1986/1987. The serial number of the last production is around 10.006000. Therefore the total number of Mauser Parabellum in .30 Luger should be around 5000 items. Now the production of the model 06/73 starts around the number 10.004000. For a while Mauser made both models. Therefore the total number of 06/73 in caliber .30 Luger should be around 2000 items.
My data base is not very populated so far and also most of the pistols have been exported into USA without the date of production stamped.

I really encourage all the Luger Forum friends that own a Mauser Parabellum to share the serial number and the date of production.

Have fun.
Cheers,
Mauro

Hi Mauro ~

My 29/70 9mm is marked 11.009648 -- where would I look for a possible stamped date of production?

I also have an Aimco Centennial (1900-AE-2000) Commemorative: "blued" stainless with small parts that appear to be strawed - including the extractor, which has the correct shape for 1900!), dished (more correctly, ground off) toggle knobs, and a grip safety. What I find interesting is that the GS appears to have been implemented with a Mauser Parabellum lever, requiring inletting of the right grip panel - quite incorrect for 1900. I have not attempted to determine the alloy of the lever, but I'm guessing it's not stainless - and the blue finish on this part may have determined the surface coloring of the frame and receiver, as the match is quite good.

Hi Again Mauro ~

I just pulled the canon off my 29/70 9mm sn# 11.009648 and found that it has "648" marked on the underside of the rear toggle link.

Hi Dave,
Absolutely interesting. What we have to figure out is why the toggle link have the last three digits engraved. It should be something related to the production phases but we need to discover when during the production phase it was necessary to do this. Should be also useful to know around which serial number Mauser started this.

Concerning the date, if your pistol is FBM marked it doesn't have the date stamped. The date is stamped on the pistol when it was tested in Ulm to be sell in Europe.
Usually the pistol imported by Interarms are simply tested by Mauser and not by the Ulm District Proofhouse.

Thank you for the information.
Ciao
Mauro
:cheers:

Important confirmation
 

Hello guys,
I just verified my Bulgarian commemorative (first commemorative made - 1975) and my LP08 commemorative (last commemorative produced - 1986). Both pistols have engraved on the rear toggle part the last digits of the serial number. The Bulgarian the last three digits, the LP08 the last two.
It means that this habit was implemented in Mauser during all the production period.
For any reasons during the production the frame was dissociated to the toggle.
For this reason was necessary to "remember" which toggle belongs to which pistol.
Now why it was necessary? I assume all Mauser Parabellum items interchangeable therefore why...

Merry Christmas

Mauro
:typing: