1911 Colt in 9 mm
 

I just bought a beautiful series 70 full size 1911 Colt in 9 mm today (sold my overstamped Frankenluger to raise part of the money--don't worry, I still have several better ones and I'll never sell Ted's restored 1915 DWM). I've been very impressed with 9 mm accuracy since I've been shooting Lugers for over a year now. I do like 1911s a lot (I have numerous .45s). Has anybody tried a 9 mm 1911?

For anyone else that wants to try it and already owns a 45 Govt model, I recently acquired a like new Springfield Armoury 9mm conversion kit (no longer sold by SA) from a friend of mine in the military... I guess that they also wanted to rehab some of their worn out 45, to the new issue caliber. See the classified section. TH

I had a Series 70 in 9mm which was the rare electroless nickel version. I was never able to achieve total reliability with it, though I tried many kinds of ammo, so I eventually disposed of it. Now I own a Series 80 in .38 Super, and they tell me it can be converted to 9mm by merely changing the barrel and magazine. Which I had tried the conversion on my Series 70.

Aaron, You will probably also want to change the recoil spring. TH

Guys,

The gun is a series 70 Mark IV with the collet bushing. Nice shape and I like it.

I shot 100 rounds of Wal-Mart ammo through the gun this morning, half through the original magazine and half through the identical Colt marked magazine that I purchased at the same gunshow. Actually, the gun may have been unfired (except for factory testring) when I bought it. The original magazine had almost 100% finish when I started and was scratched up quite a bit when I quit.

During the first 50 rounds I had 4 failures; twice the slide locked open before the magazine was empty and twice the fired case was lodged in the chamber (wasn't extracted) after firing and a new round was lodged against it. One lock open happened with the original magazine, the other three failures happened with the new magazine. I don't know that any of these failures were caused by the magazine.

Then I decided to collect any cases that didn't extract and the top rounds in the magazine at slide lock to examine for defects. For the next 50 rounds the gun wouldn't malfunction period. Bummer, no cases to analyze. I suppose the extractor might not be quite right (tension or sharpness) and the slide stop might need a depression where the plunger mates with it. The gun (when I got it) was dry--all lube had dried up and the magazine lips were sharp and felt gritty when rounds were inserted in the magazine.

Anyway, the fired groups were good, the sight alignment is good, the trigger is good and maybe it will break in to be 100% reliable. It seems promising so far and I am hopeful my new toy will do what I want.

Rick,

I have more 1911 .45s than I can really recall. Three highly modified for bullseye shooting, a nearly new commander, stainless gold cup, GI 1911 A1, Para Ord, etc. I like them all, but didn't have a 9 mm until now. I am getting tired of reloading as many rounds as I want to shoot(getting old I guess). Anyway, the 9 mm ammo is cheap and accurate and about as mild as light indoor target .45 loads. Hope the gun breaks in.

I carry a S&W 3914 in a pancake holster under an untucked shirt here in FL. It is very light, compact and comfortable, 100% reliable, etc. but just doesn't shoot like a 1911 (original type double action auto).

Hi Al..!

Congrats! Yes - the 9mm and .38 super can be "swapped", as the feedramp/breechface/barrel hood are the same dimensions. If you fit a .38 Super, set it up with a NM or solid bushing, rather then a collet bushing - unless you find an original Colt .38 Super barrel from that series. Also, if you have to fit the .38 S barrel, be careful with the throating, given the casing web of the .38 brass, and use the link length to set the offset from the ramp to the throat.

The extractor should be fine - look for the claw to pick up and hold. To check the tension - remove the slide from the firearm, remove the barrel - and insert a case between the breechface and the extractor. Now - turn the slide over - and the case should be held in place. If not, remove the FPS and FP and extractor - and insert the extractor "backwards", using the slide to hold the base - and bend it SLIGHTLY. Reassemble and check the tension again.

If you'd like, I can share with you a thread "some idiot" ( :) ) posted on another Forum about rebuilding a 1911 this past weekend. In that thread, there are some pics with the extractor and dressing it properly...

Best to you!

Al,

Here is a link to the other "thread" I was mentioning... That Forum should look familiar to you.. :D

1911 Forum

Enjoy....

Rick,

I understand your thoughts. Yes, I like alloy frames for carry, but I don't like to shoot them too much. My Para is a P-14 lightweight, I have maybe 5000 rounds through it--it's been lightly reworked by me. I would choose it to carry if I expected to need it, but it's a big-big gun (totally reliable and shoots 1.5" groups). My commander would replace it if I were limited to less than 10 rounds. My S&W 3914 is a small 23 oz. 9 mm that is very easy to carry, hoping I never need it.

John,

Thanks for your interest. I probably wouldn't go with a .38 super--unless I saw some reason to do so. Nine mm is for mild recreation and .45 is for serious stuff in my opinion (.44 mag for really serious stuff like gators or sharks here in FL).

My reworked guns were done by pros back in the 70's. I do tinker and change parts, polish a little, file sights, etc. but I'll leave serious frame and slide work to experts. I know my limits.

Thanks again for your info--I may need the extractor information.

John,

I tried to send you a private message but your mailbox is full.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by AGE:
<strong>..I tried to send you a private message but your mailbox is full.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">My mailbox is full - AGAIN??!!! OK - let me see who I've been ignoring by not reading their PMs - and try to clean it out a bit, OK??

Thanks Al..!!

John,

I messed around with the 9 mm Colt this morning. The chamber is clean and smooth. The extractor looks sharp without burrs. I bent the extractor slightly (maybe, I didn't want to break it). I tried your extractor tension test with a loaded round (with the slide removed and gun disassembled of course) and the extractor does hold the round in as the slide is rotated 360 degrees. The round is not held tightly against the breech, it does tilt downwards when the slide is upright. What do you think? I tried pulling the round forward and it does seem to be "hooked" pretty well.

I'll probably find time this next week to test it again. We have migrated to WV for the summer (it's hot-hot-hot in Florida) and I'll see how the local state range is this year. It's usually a great place to shoot.

I had tried to send you another private message but I guess you've been too busy to read it.

Hi Al...!

Sorry for the delayed reply, but I've been at the race track for the past 5 days (Instructor training and then students at the DE).. Anyway - not ignoring you, just logged in the evenings to be sure everything was still running - and then went to bed..!! :)

The extractor tension sounds right. The casing will not be held tight against the breechface, but enough tension to hold it in place - so it sounds like you are in the right area with the tension....

Let us know how it shoots, OK???!!

Best to you!

John (and others),

I shot the Colt 9 mm again today. I fired about 90 rounds of Winchester Wallymart ammo. Had 1 failure to extract and about 4 premature slide stop engagements. I plan to notch the stop for the plunger to prevent early engagement (I've had to do this on several other guns--Para Ord. and S&W 4011). I'll also see if I can undercut the extractor hook a little and bend it in a little more. The gun shot a disappointing 4-5" 25 round group at 25 yards. Maybe the malfunctions got to me.

I then shot my 1936 Luger shooter for a 1.5" 14 round group (same Wallymart ammo) and my P-14 Para for a 2" 25 round group (my .45 reloads). They both functioned perfectly and were refreshing to shoot.

Hi Al..!

If you can find the casing that failed to extract, take a look at the rim. If it is pretty well "gouged", as the extractor rode back over it - then I would very slightly add a bit more tension. Or, your chamber is slightly rough - but if it were, I suspect you'd have more FTEs.?? Anyway - try adding a touch of tension - then shoot the 1911 till you have about 400 - 500 rounds through it. My guess is that the problem will go away as it's broken in.

On the release - be sure your right thumb isn't snicking it up on the recoil. It's been known to happen. :) .. As well, strip the firearm, and insert a mag with a few rounds in it. Without the slide/bbl - insert the slide release, and check that there is clearence between the cone of the bullet and the inside tang of the release (if it contacts the cone - it will also engage the slide-stop). This can be adjusted via the mag lips holding the cartrige properly at the pick-up/release. If the shell is being held on center, it should not contact the release tang... You can try another mag, and see if there is a difference...

HTH!

Thanks John. I goofed and lost the shell that failed to extract. I bent the extractor a little more and slightly relieved the point where the end contacts the slide which should allow it to move inward a tiny bit more (only a few thousandths of an inch). I also ground a slight depression in the end of the slide stop--bullet noses are not the problem. Will continue the story when I shoot it again, hopefully next week sometime.

I shot the 9 mm 1911 again today. The early slide lock problem seems to be cured by the depression on the end of the slide stop.

However, the extraction problem is still with me. I had four FTEs in about 60 Winchester rounds and 10 PMC rounds (including the first shot with PMC). This time I retrieved all four offending cases. The case rims were hardly even nicked by the extractor--more like scratches. I already ordered a Wilson heavy duty extractor. We'll see if that solves the problem and if not, at least I'll have a spare to experiment with.

Afterward I shot my 1936 Luger some more and my .45 Colt SAA. Great fun and they worked perfectly, boosting my confidence in good guns.

Hey Al...!!!!

Well - I'm glad the detent worked for you on the SS..!!! Outstanding!!!!

On your extractor - are you sure it isn't clocking? You can check with the FP stop, as it ought to hold the extractor in place without it being able to rotate..??

Just a thought????

Hello I've got a Series 70 Colt Government Model in 9mm Luger made in 1976.I have not had very good luck with 1911 pistols especially Colts but this one has never failed and I mean never after several thousand rnds.I carried it for years and the only thing that I've replaced is the recoil spring.I also bought a solid bushing just in case the collet type broke.It will feed all types of hardball and Federal 9bp standard pressure 115 hollowpoints flawlessly.Have you thought about the recoil spring ,the old one and the new one I bought from Wolff are pretty weak.It's just a thought but if your recoil spring is too strong it might be causing some problems with your pistol.

Jim,

I'm glad to hear of your reliable gun. Most people seem to have some trouble with 9 mm 1911s. I am determined to get mine running 100 % and I have the time to do it (I hope I don't have to live to 100 to make it.).

Yes, I ordered a 10 # spring along with the heavy duty extractor. If that's too weak, I'll try some of my .45 recoil springs. I'll mess with it some more soon, probably next week. I need to check the clearance around the extractor relief cut in the barrel, etc, etc.

John D. and Jim (and anyone else interested),

I received the Wilson extractor and the 10# recoil spring in the mail today. You have to adjust the tension in the Wilson extractor, rats (it's absolutely straight when they ship it). I think I got it adjusted pretty well, it takes a lb. or so of force to slide out a case. The old recoil spring was much shorter than the new 10# spring.

I'm ready to head out to the range again--maybe Monday (retirement is tough, but someone has to do it--might as well be me).

Until later.

Hi Al..!!!!

OK- the SPEC on tension is 3 pounds - but to measure it, you'd need a special guage, and with your fingers - 1# feels a LOT like 3#'s :) .... Anyway - let us know how she runs, OK? Did you check the FPS against the new extractor, so you know it isn't clocking???

Best to you!!!!

John D.

It runs great. I just put 120 rounds of Waleymart Winchester through the gun. Everything worked perfectly--all rounds ejected properly, no early slide locks, and the slide always locked back after the last round. I guess the new extractor does the job.

With the longer 10# spring the gun kicks a little more. That surprised me--feels more like a .45 now.

John, from the 1911 forum I got a hint about measuring extractor tension without a gage. You can wrap a piece of fishing line or tape around the cartridge case, place it under the extractor, hold the slide horizontal and fasten a soft drink bottle to the line or tape and keep adding water until the weight pulls the case out. I didn't do that, but I did wrap a loop of tape around the case and leave another loop to pull on and then increased extractor tension until it took a sizable tug to pull it out.

Jim,

It's great to have a reliable 9 mm 1911. I think I'll enjoy this one, especially since it's so cheap and easy to feed.

AGE, do you ever shoot that old beat up Luger I sold you?

Ted,

Yes I do shoot the 1915 DWM that you sold me last year. However, since it's so old and yet beautiful, I put most of the wear and tear on my 1936 Mauser shooter (reblued by somebody unknown and wearing grips modified by Hugh). The DWM is spending the summer sleeping in my safe in FL while we are on our annual migration to WV.

After shooting these and my (former) frankenluger, I had to have a 1911 in 9 mm. Thus, these latest adventures. Us overgrown boys need toys to keep us out of trouble.

Along with the Luger, the Colt 1911 is also a piece that I enjoy shooting. I have the MK IV,series 70 1911 in the various calibers it was offered in, .22, 9mm, 38sup, and 45acp. I haven't picked up on the latest offerings yet, 10mm,etc.
I just can't help but mention one of the sweetest shooting 1911s I have is the one I converted to .30 Luger. For this conversion, I bored out a spare shot out barrel to accept a .30 sleeve turned out from a Hi-Power barrel. A good tight fit followed with a little silver solder and it was good to go. I use this barrel on the 9mm 1911. The stock spring works just fine. The accuracy is on par with the 9mm,very manageble recoil, and so far, no feeding problems.
I was once told that the 1911 was chambered for the .30L but I have yet to find such a barrel. The only glitch is the Hi power barrel is just a little shorter than the GI barrel.
Rudy Nilo

Rudy,

Your .30 Luger barrel sounds interesting, but my reason for wanting the 9 mm is economy without reloading. I now have multiple 1911s in .45 (high capacity, lightweight, GI, Gold Cup, hardball, gallery load, etc. and a few spares). I have a super accurate 1911 set up with a Day .22 Conversion unit with a Bomar rib to match my gallery gun. I previously had a .38 Gold Cup that I wore out (still sold it for 3X what I paid for it) and another set up with a Colt .22 conversion unit (couldn't get match accuracy from that one).

I'm getting too lazy to reload as much as I want to shoot so the 9 mm with Wallymart ammo fills the bill--.22s are too boring. Of course if I continue my past behavior and go for custom work on the 9 mm, I could have bought a lot of .45 ammo for the same $$.

Al,
I agree 100% with economical shooting. If not for reloading, I'd be lost! The problem in my neck of the woods is finding a place to shoot. We have indoor ranges available but understandable limits are placed on the shooters. I guess that's why I find myself "tinkering" more and shooting less! Once I get a few projects done, I'll go to the range to find out what bugs on what piece needs to be worked out. Than back home for more tuning.
Anyways, .22s ARE kinda boring,factory 9mm prices ARE getting to be attractive even to reloaders!
Rudy Nilo