Collector grade question
 

How durable is strawing on the earlier guns? I always clean my guns after shooting...I understand the salts from our skin can mar a finish, but would one go to the length of using gloves to avoid it all together?

If one wears gloves is he deemed a prissy fellow?


Thoughts?

You shoot your collector grade guns?

Would one drive a 1960's Ferrari GTO or a 1973 Porsche 911 on the street? Some would some wouldn't.

For those whom shoot their irreplaceable items, would you suggest gloves or no?

To wear gloves or not to wear gloves is kind of moot. If you shoot an irreplaceable item and break a numbered part the loss of a little finish kind of becomes inconsequential, doesn't it? Weigh one risk against the other and take your choice.

I fired 200 rounds from this R9 (detail see shooting column). It's my collector, the condition was VG+ to Exec-. The safety lever broke during the process. The lever on this variation is unnumbered, that's fortunate, but finding a replacement lever is not a very trivial task and will take time -- there are parts donor guns, but usually when a gun starts give away parts, it's in poor shape and the safety lever's condition does not match this gun's condition. Of course, future replacement lever must be period correct, that limits the searching scope.. and,,,, cost, cost, cost,,,, there are many nice guns with nice levers, but they are high cost and their levers are not donors. Temporarily, I put a Bolo lever on it, which does not work well. So, even broke a unnumbered part will create lots of searching work.

If in your mind it makes you a prissy fellow than I guess it does. Others wouldn't have a problem with it. I use a product call feed n wax on my collector guns and never have any issues with occasional handling of them.

After shooting any handgun, I spray it with a preserving gun oil like RemOil and wipe it down with a soft cloth. This helps remove fingerprints, and leaves a coating that can help eliminate finish problems. I also store guns in bore store type products. They are a silicone impregnated woven sock that helps repel moisture.

Straw is one of several methods of establishing an iron oxide coating on metal surfaces. Like rust bluing, salt bluing, nitre bluing and flame bluing the objective is to form an oxide other than rust (Fe2O3). Since the surface is oxidized once it won't be oxidized a second time in the same spots, preserving the surface.

Straw is not an applied coating. When, over time, other oxides form on a strawed surface they are much more visible because they are almost always dark in color.

Good article on iron oxidation is at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust

When I handle my firearms I normally wear gloves (cotton) and when I don't I do as Marc (mrerick) does and that is to spray the metal surface with RemOil and wipe down with a soft cloth being careful to keep the preservative away from the wood. I also keep a small dehumidifier in my gun safe such as an Eva-Dry and I have never experienced a problem. The importance of a small dehumidifier became apparent when I checked on some papers that I had stored in another safe without the benefit of one and moister was noticeable on them.
Lesson learned.


Lon

Alvin, have you considered having the broken part repaired/restored by a competent gunsmith or restorer of fine firearms? Thor or policeluger come to mind... that would retain your originality as much as possible... and depending on the kind of breakage, the repair might be invisible... just a thought...

If you shoot at an outdoor range where large magnum handguns are fired, it is quite common to see these shooters wearing gloves. They wear them to aid in the recoil "pain", not to preserve the finish, but gloves are gloves.

The safety lever is a little bit hard. This lever has a flat spring in the front, which is thin and fragile, and it broke there.

Since it's unnumbered, I will try to find a replacement first.

It is kind of funny. in one thread "we" say you can't shoot your collector gun, and in another "we" say what a shame they deactivated your collector gun.
If you are not going to shoot it, deactivation doesn't really matter.

I know, I know what you are going to say.

My Luger though matching is not really collectable due to minor finish issues. But my BYF 42 P38 is matching and rare. Tomorrow I will put some more rounds through it though. And then clean and preserve it like I always do.

Anyway, the whole no shooting collectors keeps me torn.

I wear golfing gloves when I shoot. They are thin leather on the fingers giving good tactile feel for loading and handeling. They not only keep hand sweat/salts off my pistols but keep my hands clean. Any session where you load & fire 500 rounds or so is incredibly dirty.

I won't go into how incredibly stupid it is to fire collector grade all matching pistols when cheap shooter grades are so easily available..It's always taken the wrong way. People get the impression I think they are morons.

I'm up to 12 and I'm still a Luger Virgin~~I wondered how many lugers does the average luger collector have?

Always at least one less than they would like to have :cheers:

13th Comandment,, 'Thou shalt not covett thy neighbors' luger collection'!!

And always scheming about how to add that one more.:evilgrin:

I think it's nice to have an opinion and to feel strongly about something. But calling people stupid is taking it a little far.
I got into collecting because I like guns and I like to shoot them. I always wanted a Luger and now have my first one. I love it and it shoots great but the finish is below collector grade though all matching numbers. So you will be happy it is a shooter.
When I found my P38 I was looking for a shooter and accidentally bought a nice collector piece for $450 and I am shooting it. I had no idea it is actually a desirable gun for collecting. I am careful with it, keep it perfectly maintained and I am going to shoot it.
I will be buying more Lugers. I will shoot them all. I doubt I will buy any for more than a few thousand. But like with my P38 I might get lucky and find a good one.
Next on my list are a wartime 1911 and a Walther PP. Yup, gonna shoot them.
I guess I am a moron. But a happy one... :thumbsup:
:surr:

That's why I said I won't go into how incredibly stupid it is. It's always taken the wrong way. You try to explain these things and no one understands!

I won't argue with you. But you already said how incredibly stupid it is. I am a grown man and made an informed decision.
You know they fired the million dollar Luger some years back right? Don't think I would have done that.
So just because one person makes a different decision from another. They are not stupid or a moron. They just have a different opinion.

Tony, You won't argue because there is nothing to argue about. One I didn't call you stupid. Don't put words in my mouth..it aint sanitary. I said it is incredibly stupid to do such a thing. And it is.. for the reasons I already stated. There are cheap guns out there..one P-38 or Luger shoots just like another.
What I particularly dislike about attitudes like yours are your disrespect. I tried to say it tongue in cheek but you draw me out with your self rightous self serving lack of any respect for a rare historical artifact, never to be made again. Cannot be replaced. That you show no consideration for any other view except it's mine and I can break it if I want. And you think I personally attacked you. I attack all caretakers of these artifacts who wish to molest them in any way.
just because one person makes a different decision from another. They are not stupid or a moron. They just have a different opinion. That is a very poor argument..You make a decision to jump off a 500 ft. high bridge. I make the decision to watch your fall. Whose the moron?
You have these guns in your care..certainly do what you wish with them. That is certainly your choice. I disrespect your decision, and anyone else's decision to shoot all matching collector grade guns.

Ok, you win. Your argument is so strong I will never shoot my guns again. Thanks

Why am I wasting my time on a petulant child with no capacity for reasonable discourse. NOW your being a moron.

The discussion on whether to shoot collectible firearms or not has been ongoing for a long time .I personally do not and will not shoot collectible weapons. It is true that it is the owners right to do whatever with them. We can preserve these historical items or we can ruin them. The choice is indeed ours. I am only a brief caretaker and I will preserve them for the next caretakers. I seriously feel this is my duty as a collector. My 2 cents. Bill

I completely agree with Bill, I never shoot my collectible guns, especially Lugers, to cut a long story short it's a matter of respect towards the gun and the page of history linked to to it, but after all it's a personal choice, in any case even if I shoot a GLOCK or an oldish Swiss Army SIG P210 after having cleaned it I throughout I spray it with FINSUPER a preserving gun oil l with a bit of "teflon" and I wipe it with a silocone coat, that leaves a thin coating that can help eliminate any finish problems.

For collectibles, do not shoot it if you plan to sell it in short term (say, next year); do not shoot early pistols because even unnumbered parts are hard to find; do not shoot vest pocket pistols because those tiny parts are super fragile; and do not shoot expensive pistols (say, $2k).

Parts breakage and lost value of a collectible. It's a 50/50 chance. It's as simple as that.
It's your decision.

What part in any luger is more prone to breakage? It seem the Erfurt spings were maked and I'm sure hard to replace!

Have not fired Lugers except postwar Interarms. But, I guess following parts are fragile -- extractor, firing pin, and genuine "black widow" grip panels.

The hold open lever does not look strong either.

Survey here:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...light=breakage

Does It Make Any Difference Among Makers
 

In other words did one maker produce better quality apart from Krieghoff!

To shoot or not to shoot?

I think it depends on the gun. Old revolvers don't break nearly as easily as an auto loader can. P38's don't break like Lugers do - they are much stronger and have far fewer numbered parts. I don't shoot my expensive Lugers, but I see nothing wrong with shooting a $900 P38. They are pretty much indestructible, IMO.


I looked at this survey, not sure it all makes sense to me.

How do you break a grip screw by shooting?

Or a rear toggle axle pin? These are huge - they look like they would be one of the stronger parts in the gun, no?

- Geo

Screw is a special component, regardless gun type. Damaged through disassembly though.

====

Just watched this video. I fired thousands of rounds from Mauser, never met situation like this, at this high failure rate, something is seriously wrong. Firing correct gun, at least gives a correct feeling on how this thing should perform :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71zsZwqgayw

but I see nothing wrong with shooting a $900 P38. That might be true..I have very little experience with shooting these.

How do you break a grip screw by shooting?

Or a rear toggle axle pin..I broke one on my Navy shooter! Sheared off the flange. Try finding a large flange Imperial Navy toggle pin!

Alvin
Interesting video with the young man shooting the C96.Notice he pulled his finger from the trigger every time it jammed.Good for him.
What do you think his problem is?
I am thinking a weak magazine spring.He was getting full extraction and ejection.
Also,was he shooting Magtech .30 Mauser???
Must have been reloads,since Magtech doesn't load for that caliber?
Bob

It's hard to explain what we saw in the video -- the hammer did not lock, and the empty stayed in chamber after firing. He had to pull the bolt open to eject the empty case.

Assume the magazine spring was weak. That would explain the next round did not load, but that alone does not explain why the empty case stayed in chamber. If we assume the extractor had an issue, so the empty case was not extracted, and, the magazine spring was too weak to push the next round up quickly, that's possible. But, why didn't the hammer lock after firing? It might also has a sear or disconnector issue. But there is another possibility -- this gun's bolt lock might be mismatched and did fit the gun well, could the bolt occasionally locked too long time, and the residual pressure was not enough to open the bolt? It's possible as well. Or, reload ammo is too weak to finish the recycling work??

Too many possibilities.

Right, the flange - didn't think of that. Makes sense it would be the weakest part of the pin, but I didn't know they could shear completely off.

I like the Mauser C96 but I do not dare shooting my collectible Lugers, can you imagine a C96 ! :-)

I wonder what precautions the original owners took. I remember seeing those tiny oilers. What did they contain back then?

Depends. This video shot an excellent 1930. I also fired near mint one before, wonderful experience, no video:) A little bit luxury, due to the gun was over $2k. But 1930 is very solid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7cEQExy9ew